Episode Review and General Comments

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

Please post all "Holy $hit", "WOW!", and general or abbreviated comments about the episode here. Use individual threads for longer or more substantive thoughts/discussion points.

This thread will be opened immediately before the episode airs on the east coast HBO feed.

</p>

[jayneezy]

dam fuckin christopher and the coke......dammmm.....

</p>

[jayneezy]

HOLY SHIT @ Artie unplugged.......dam.....he goin.....

</p>

[KeithF40]

Was that David Chase on the plane. Those sneaky sons of a bitches.


</p>

[jayneezy]

yes it was....lol ha ha

</p>

[jayneezy]

i thought this was a very good episode....this season is great......the episode moved fast and i thought everyone did a good job....

LOL @ Christopher and Murmur jacking Lauren Bacall.......

Next week looks like it will be crazy....."Johnny Cakes"

</p>

[KeithF40]

Finally next week it looks like well see what happens with AJ. There has been much speculation as to what he actually does and finally well be able to see what comes of the whole Vito situation, or at least I hope.


</p>

[billymac]

Bennie takes another beating and Artie gets back a little of the "manhood" he lost trying to beat up Jean Claude

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billymac 72261>billymac72261</A> http://www.planet-familyguy.com/downloads/wallpapers/rupert/1stewie1024x768.jpg at: 4/23/06 8:06 pm

[Rich in NJ]

Drugs and drink are going to end up costing Christopher his life.

</p>

[Zillajay23]

Darn Keithf40 you are quick I was gonna say that about the backdrop of David Chase on the plane. What an entertaining episode you gotta love the Artie episodes. When he shot that bunny lol. Seeing Chris shoot up again I don't like the way his path is headed, and Tony telling him how many times you gonna bring up Adriana. Bye Bye to Frankie Vali you knew that was coming. Lots going on in the episode and Lauren Bacall getting mugged wow. Like that they brought up the scene about Tony and his family eating there during the storm that is one of my favorite scenes the last scene of season one.

</p>

[jayneezy]

i thought Artie was going to kill Benny when he was at his house.......

</p>

[badabing187]

I would have hoped Tony would go against doing business with the arabs. I think that is the setup to their downfall.

All about greed this episode was,

</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>All about greed this episode was<hr></blockquote>

You said it.....the point was well made too! As Chris told Ben Kingsley they give out the most to those who need it least. Consumerism and greed have been on display all season. This episode did not disappoint on that level (among many others) at all.

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>i thought Artie was going to kill Benny when he was at his house.......<hr></blockquote>

That may have been the first time that Artie won a fight in his life.

</p>

[jayneezy]

i wonder if there will be any problems because of the Rusty hit.....

</p>

[billymac]

To further illustrate the theme of greed and consumerism, Chris tells Lauren Bacall that he loved her in an old movie (one of her first I think - with Bogart) "To Have and Have Not", only Chris calls it "The Haves and the Have Nots"

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>To further illustrate the theme of greed and consumerism, Chris tells Lauren Bacall that he loved her in an old movie (one of her first I think - with Bogart) "To Have and Have Not", only Chris calls it "The Haves and the Have Nots"<hr></blockquote>

Good catch.

</p>

[jayneezy]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I would have hoped Tony would go against doing business with the arabs. I think that is the setup to their downfall.<hr></blockquote>

I think if he finds out those guys have anything to do with terror some form he will do something about it....or the FBI might approach them to do something like many ppl here have said before.....

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jayneezy>jayneezy</A> at: 4/23/06 8:18 pm

[jeff41954]

I wonder how Phil really feels about Vito?

</p>

[Niko427]

I'm pretty sure Phil wants Vito dead. I'm 99% positive on that one.

</p>

[jayneezy]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I wonder how Phil really feels about Vito?<hr></blockquote>

I think he is outraged and wants to get him ...

</p>

[TommySoprano]

They mugged Lauren Bacall!!!!! Too friggin' funny.

</p>

[billymac]

I was in stitches just watching the stunned expressions on Little Carmine's face when Ben Kingsley was going through the gift tables at the spa.....that guy is a classic! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">

</p>

[Hrurusch]

did i get this wrong or did Butter get the chips for the arabs from the jewish guy?
will this evolve somehow with these three meeting directly somehow and the arabs will flip out or was that just to show anything is connected in this world?

</p>

[badabing187]

Really? Phil wants Vito dead? Lol.

Another point, Tony seems to be very sharp on everything, taking every precaution, not even fully accepting the money from the Arabs - giving it straight to Vesuvio. Tony practically called out Chris 'losing focus', Carmine's a retard, never mentions Rusty, and disected Artie down to the very bone.

</p>

[Niko427]

Can we assume that Benny is made and in Chris' crew?

</p>

[jayneezy]

Nice catch.....that is probably what you said.....everything is connected....

</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>did i get this wrong or did Butter get the chips for the arabs from the jewish guy?<hr></blockquote>

I think Chris' AA sponsor's name is "Murmur" (not Butter) as in James "Murmur" Zancone. He explained to Ben Kingsley that he got the name because he had a heart murmur as a kid.

And yes, he did get stolen credit card numbers from Hillel at the hotel. Did you hear him singing when he walked in the door...singing the Elton John song "Daniel", only he sang "Hillel my brother you are older than me" <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

</p>

[Hrurusch]

i see, saw somebody name him butter before.

</p>

[jayneezy]

i know his name is Murmur on the show but i think they changed it before the season started.....because i kinda think i remember them referring to him as Butter last year around this time when they had that special behind the scenes look at the filming of the new season.......either way.....

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

I hope Artie agrees to go into therapy with Melfi, it would be priceless.

</p>

[wgaryw]

I'm *finally* getting around to posting here for the first time. Thanks to all for the wonderful discussions to date. This forum has been such a delight to read.

I was blown away by tonight's episode-- greater depth and too many highly emotional dramatic mini-climaxes to begin to take in after one viewing. So my comments are more generally about the direction of this season.

It seems to me the general approach of the 6th season so far has been to establish the various ways in which many of the characters lives are going to ultimately fall apart, contrasted with Tony's new point of view, which I feel has by this point shown to be inarguably sincere and persistent (whether that means he'll stick to his new outlook or not remains to be seen, but the changes in Tony certainly can't be viwed at this point as having been a one or two episode side-plot).

Virtually everyone inside the mob wants out (going back as far as the season premiere episode with Gene's attempt to start over in Florida), virtually everyone on the outside wants in (Carm's increasing interest and involvement with the business side of the family, Angie's putting "money on the street", etc.), and the result of all these unfulfilled hopes and dreams is ever growing self-destructive behavior to express the rage they feel over their troubled lives. While we keep hearing Tony refer back to the quote about "going about in pity for yourself", or telling Carmella how we "make our own luck", or trying to have honest heart-to-heart talks with those around him in situations where he previously would have simply become abusive, most everyone *else* is blaming their circumstances, blaming others, becoming further and further controlled by envy of the greener grasses they perceive around them, lashing out in ever more dangerous ways.

Anyone of these storylines (Vito's exposed sexuality, the hit on Rusty, Christopher slipping back into drugs, Artie's psychological meltdown, etc.) could be *the* one that rips everything apart. Maybe all these storylines will come to a climax, though the style of the show up till now has always been to mimic life by unpredicatibly leaving some threads dangling and unresolved. So the specifics of what is coming up elude me.

But I do have this growing anxiety as I watch each week's new installment, seeing the positive changes in Tony's personality and how negatively these changes are being received by most everyone around him. Even Carmella, who has been shown recently to be quite loving with Tony, may be concealing more of a conflicted response to the "new" Tony, given her admission that the old Tony's fierceness and dominating nature was so much of what appealed to her in the first place.

I find myself liking Tony more and more each week, being able to identify with him more comfortably than ever before in the history of the series. Chase was always so careful to consistently remind us of Tony's brutality and selfishness, punctuating any identification we may have felt with repellent moments that make us recoil from him. But Tony is now obviously trying to change-- struggling, yes, but clearly trying. And it seems to me that the more he does change-- surrounded as he is by "jackal" business associates and rapidly deteriorating loved ones-- the more he's writing his own death sentence, or contructing the path to whatever other tragic end awaits him.

It reminds me very much of how, after two years of Ralph Cifaretto having been depicted as a unregenerate scumbag (an entertaining one, but still a scumbag), we saw his human side (after his son's accident) only as a prelude to his graphic, hyperviolent murder at Tony's hands.

I feel each week a growing dread about Tony's fate, not that I ever felt that he would meet a happy end. But now I'm being led to truly *like* him, less conditionally than ever before, and I feel it's an elaborate prelude to a tragic fall that will only feel more tragic if it results, directly or not, in his sad destiny, whatever it ultimately turns out to be.

I think of it this way-- if Tony was killed in a mob hit at the end of season four, after we'd seen him murder Ralph, beat Zellman with a belt, etc., it might have seemed fitting, but certainly not tragic. The theme so far this year really seems to be that "no good deed goes unpunished", and Tony's punishment will be meted out in due course.

I think it's an interesting side note that so many of the show's fans hate the new Tony, longing for the old Tony's return, delighted when Tony attacked his bodyguard and showed his teeth again. But I don't think this is at all where the heart of the show lies.

Each week my faith grows that David Chase will pull off a meaningful and satisfying resolution to all of this. But it won't be pretty. Not one bit.

--wgw

"there's some folks out there, if they don't get it, you can't tell 'em." (louis armstrong)</p>

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

This episode illustrated very well how much the show suffers when Tony and immediate family aren't the center of the action. The Christopher/Hollywood stuff just plain sucked for me, a total waste of time. Nothing new was revealed, nothing developed in story or character that wasn't easily predictable.

Did anyone think Chris and Carmine stood a snowball's chance in hell of getting Ben Kingsley to commit to their idiotic slasher film? Did anyone think it would prove anything other than a vehicle to show how out of place they are in that world, how ill-euipped socially and intellectually they are to interact in it? Was anyone just counting the minutes until Chris fell off the wagon and back into his comfort zone of intimidation and cheap, violent crime when he finally accepted his inevitable failure?

I saw every bit of it coming well in advance. I don't think I've ever been able to say that about any episode before.

If I seem a bit testy, I am. With so few episodes left, I'm ticked that the better part of one had to be wasted on a retread story for Christopher, a character who (despite Michael Imperioli's fine acting) simply does not possess the complex, commanding, or endearing qualities that make for a story lead. He is strictly a supporting character, like all of Tony's crew. Their value lies entirely in how they help drive Tony's story and paint his environment.

That said, I did very much enjoy the Artie story. I loved seeing Artie find the masculine dignity to beat the crap out of Benny and to call Tony on his crap, face to face, without fear. I loved seeing him take out a battered but obviously sacred old book of family recipes and make a dish he'd probably never prepared for a customer before, in a moment of culinary improv and obvious passion for his art. I loved the theme of honest work playing against the backdrop of violent fraud and the differences in how the men engaged in each are perceived. And I loved Tony having to think about and confront all of this, having to see up close the effects that his "business" can have on decent, hard-working people.

If the Artie story could have been paired with a strong Tony or Soprano family episode, it would have been bang up, probably 3rd best of the season after eps 2 and 3. Paired with the Christopher stuff, though, it's an episode that I'll watch mostly on FF in the future.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

Tony telling Artie about Melfi and recommending her was a bit weird too, imho.
was probably to show though how much has changed, the outraging tony now so much changed that he is the relaxed one and gives tips.

</p>

[De Novo]

Great post wgaryw.

I agree this was the weakest of the season thus far, but I still enjoyed it. Really thought there would be a tragic end to Artie's story; shooting the rabbit seemed to be a prelude to greater violence, like bringing that rifle right into Vesuvio, shooting a bunch of people and offing himself. I guess that would have been cheap, though, and I was touched by the closing scene. Reminded me of the film "Big Night."

Fly, I share your impatience. Time seems to be running out with so much meaty plot left to deal with, so why spend an entire episode on Artie and Hollywood mockery, as equally sad and funny as those sub-plots were? Still seems as if Tony has malevolent forces on all sides (Phil, AJ, Paulie, Chris, even Carm), some or all of whom will force a tragic return to "old Tony" at the season's climax. I think, as ever, we can bank on a strong finish.

</p>

[RDeol]

I agree FOMW, it was an episode that was a "filler" where almost no progress was made (none unless you think Rusty going was big to the storyline). It wasn't a bad episode but nothing special at the same time. And as always, it was entertaining.

</p>

[pitbullluv]

<span style="color:navy;font-family:century gothic;font-size:small;">Artie let it all hang out in this episode! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> He held nothing back from telling Tony like it is. From bringing up the honesty about the fire at Vesuvio's to telling Tony to pay his tab. And the scene with Benny was priceless. I never thought he would have the nerve to actually kick his ass. I believe the rage he brought forth on Benny was not only for the credit card scam but for the relationship he was having with the hostess. The smart remark he made to Benny at the dinner table regarding in reference to the hostess was excellent.

Christopher's reckless behavior was a weak attempt at hiding his contempt for Ben Kingsley. Obviously, it bothered Christopher to see Ben Kingsley getting a plethora of free gifts. Not to mention Ben Kingsley's lack of enthusiasm for Chris' screenplay. Ben Kingsley was not impressed with their lack of social graces and intelligence. He had far better things to do like getting together with Lauren Bacall, committing himself to prior meetings, and going to the spa. Lauren Bacall's reaction when she was getting mugged was hilarious.

Who were the two men they introduced at the beginning of the episode? </span>

</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Who were the two men they introduced at the beginning of the episode? <hr></blockquote>

One was Jerry "The Hairdo" Torciano...the guy who ordered the beatin' on Hesh's son-in-law. I'm not sure who the other guy was...will have to watch it again.

</p>

[bobC]

After all the build up of the "Rusty hit" I thought it was rather anti-climatic. It was no big deal as far as the rest of the episode went, and Tony came away with total anonymity (as planned).

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

wgaryw, great to see you post! And a fine first post, btw.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I find myself liking Tony more and more each week, being able to identify with him more comfortably than ever before in the history of the series. Chase was always so careful to consistently remind us of Tony's brutality and selfishness, punctuating any identification we may have felt with repellent moments that make us recoil from him. But Tony is now obviously trying to change-- struggling, yes, but clearly trying.<hr></blockquote>

I agree. I'm thrilled to see some measure of payoff for daring to believe that there was some spark of decency in him, some foothold for him to become a better person. I cannot imagine the Tony of previous seasons ever having endured -- without fisticuffs, intimidation, or verbal assaults -- the kind of things Artie said to him tonight.

So it was an episode that served both characters well. It showed that there is a limit to what Artie will put up with in the name of friendship or intimidation. And it showed continued growth from Tony, even as a hit he ordered was carried out.

The Rusty hit, in fact, may be the first hit Tony ever ordered out of compassion (LMAO) and without any personal gain as incentive, which is at least a start. Fortunately he saved the nobler side of his friendship for Artie.:-)

</p>

[Zillajay23]

2 New York Guys one was Jerry the Hairdoo from the first episode and the other guy we are just meeting Burt something two new made guys aparently

</p>

[Hrurusch]

the hit on rusty was done poorly imho.a silent neighbourhood, car somewhat blocking from behind and the guying speaking italian, then it took really long until the second guy approached.for a moment i was thinking they were using the same map and rusty would see how his adress was marked, was that on the back of the map facing us actually?

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/23/06 9:32 pm

[chrisishot1]

I thought it was a weak episode. I was disappointed with the Hollywood storyline -- even Christopher should have been film-savvy enough to realize that Kingsley would have no interest in their film. That was a stupid idea on Chase's part. I expected Christopher to use drugs at some point this season; I'm confused because he was aware enough to call his sponsor and seek help. Shows a little more maturity on his part. Interesting end to his story. Tony's question at the end; is that the impetus Christopher needs to get over the Adriana thing and get on with life? Or will that just become a bigger conflict with Tony?

Vito's dead as a doorknob. He just doesn't know it yet.

Enjoyed the Artie storyline, though Benny's involvement didn't ring true. Would he sh*t on the place they eat? But the ending was great, with Artie digging out his dad's old recipes to fix the rabbit. He found his heart again.

</p>

[Alas1119]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>They mugged Lauren Bacall!!!!! Too friggin' funny. <hr></blockquote>

My husband and I were literally screaming when this occurred! We were like, OMG - they actually mugged Lauren Bacall!

Question: How did Phil know that Tony was responsible for the hit on Rusty? If I recall correctly, that little ditty was supposed to be between Tony and Johnny Sack only (well Christopher knew because he set things up with the Italian speaking junkie gun dealer). I want to know how Phil got wind of it.

My husband thinks that Johnny Sack told Phil and that he's playing Tony. I don't know what to think.

Also, my husband called it re: Artie shooting the rabbit. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

</p>

[chrisishot1]

I think Phil just assumed that when Rusty was hit, Tony had reconsidered Johnny's request. I'm not sure Johnny would relate his conversation with Tony to Phil.

I called the rabbit at the end of the show right away. It fit Artie's angry mood to a "T", but I was glad he found his heart and started to be a chef again.

</p>

[ObservingEgo]

Did not feel the love for this episode...felt tedious to me. Maybe I just prefer the seasoning of other writers/directors. However, I may mellow later in the week, as I remain susceptible to other PsOV.

Did have to laugh when I saw the "guy who speaks Ital" deliver the hardware in an L.L. Bean tote bag...another touch or more aptly, a cultural collision with New England preppy element a la Dart-ford. Okay, the final scene with Artie and his papa's recipes was sweet, especially that his resolution had roots in the "new" Tony's wise and (more) patient sagacity. (Is Artie skating on thin ice, or what?)

That's it for Rusty, I guess. He surely died a good citizen in helping the two paisans with road directions.



</p>

[RDeol]

Phil knows it was him because it was he who came to Tony in the first place (via John's request). John may have mentioned something to him also.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

didnt he say Johnny says thanks?i doubt he would pull that kind of lie off.the gesture with him saying how he himslef would be straight out and pulling back his jacket to show he has a clean vest was showing what he thinks of tony though.maybe he even thinks now tony was behind blundetto that time.or didnt he say johnny says thanks?

</p>

[billymac]

I agree that the time spent on Chris and Little Carmine’s Hollywood trip was a bit weak. And I really hate to say that because I was so enamored with the expectations that could have developed from this particular storyline. It seemed like an excuse for cameos: Lauren Bacall, Sir Ben Kingsley and Wilmer Valderrama (the guy who plays “Fez” on “That 70's Show”). I guess Chase had to finish this storyline at some point and if it was going nowhere, better now than later. Despite the fact that it wasn’t a very bold climax, I wasn’t completely disappointed.

Even though the resolution seemed like a recycled end to an intriguing plot point (we have seen Chris’ Hollywood hopes fade so many times before) it did help illustrate that selfishness and self-centered personal gain is universal and exists in the respected “high and mighty” as well as common folk. It also illustrated the self-absorbed mentality of the pampered elite.

Ben Kingsley was so taken with himself (“Sir Ben actually”) and had obvious contempt for those like Chris, Little Carmine and Murmur who were not (in his eyes) his equal: he had no contempt however for those that were freely kissing his ass with expensive gifts. That scene reminded me of Tony’s visit to Johnny Sac’s optometrist brother-in-law: Tony just grabbed whatever he wanted without paying for it. I thought that was a nice juxtaposition.

Ben Kingsley’s narcissistic attitude was on display from the very moment he entered the storyline. When he was on the phone with his agent, he wanted to know why he had to talk to Chris and Little Carmine, all the while being more interested in which expensive designer shirt would look better on him. He obviously didn’t want to meet these mo-mo “nobodys”. He was more concerned with getting through this unwanted obligation so that he could get to his free shiatsu massage.

Lauren Bacall was protecting that presenter’s gift basket from being stolen as if it contained a fistful of diamonds. Instead it contained, among other things, a “pocket-dog” carrying bag: the epitome of a modern day self-absorbed celebrity status symbol. Too bad Chris “whacked” little Cosette or else he’d have a use for it.

The symbolic end to Chris’ “Hollywood dream” was the elevator ride. Chris and Murmur stand, clothed once again as street thugs, compared to Kingsley’s tinsel town “majesty”. Once Chris knows that the dream is over (yet again) he “whacks” Lauren Bacall and brings home the “spoils” of his criminal act, much like the Sicilian hit men, who after killing Rusty, are seen on their plane ride, comparing the consumer trinkets they are bringing home from America.

I agree that it could have been accomplished more crisply, more wittily and more quickly, but I found a lot to like about all of these contrasts and comparisons.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billymac 72261>billymac72261</A> http://www.planet-familyguy.com/downloads/wallpapers/rupert/1stewie1024x768.jpg at: 4/23/06 11:11 pm

[De Novo]

I did appreciate how this episode contrasted Artie and Tony, the same way last week's did for Vito and Tony. We saw Tony trapped and dependent in contrast to Vito's Finnerty-esque flight for independence; here we had Tony and the Sopranos as the "haves" and Artie and the Buccos as the "have-nots," those people trying to live straight yet falling victim to outside forces as well as inner pettiness, lust and jealousy.

Yet, as the Dell Labs scientist reminded us, "everything is connected," and these people are ultimately the same. We have the "Two Tonys" theme writ large and in multiple ways -- two fat mobsters, two bald childhood friends, two doomed families, etc. Call me crazy but I think next week will be the episode to focus on Tony and AJ -- the "Subject" and his "Double."



</p>

[speropk]

Favorite Quote:
Artie: "We lead the world in computerized data processing!"

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

Great post WGARYW --

I hear what a lot of you have been saying, perhaps most articulately by FOMW, but I have a little bit different take on the Christopher trip to Hollywood, and how it ties into the Artie storyline that was its counterpart in tonight's episode.

Christopher goes to Hollywood to try to become a player in the legitimate film industry. When he gets there, he finds that he is in fact a big fish in the little Jersey pond, but he has absolutely no clout, savvy or persuasive ability in the Hollywood world. Chris Multisanti, the man who will "lead the NJ family into the 21st century" is nonexistent outside of his world.

Meanwhile, Artie loses touch of what he does best, cooking, and his restaurant starts to fail. When he isn't doing what he's meant to do, he starts cracking up mentally, his business loses money, and he's got a wandering eye again even after reuniting with Charmaine (an event that was never satisfactorily resolved for me, but that's another topic).

I feel like these two storylines say a LOT about Tony. Unlike Chris, Tony is a small fish in the big pond of the U.S. We have seen his face plastered on TV, papers, etc. Witness relocation? The more I think about it, the more i doubt it. There's no way someone as big as Tony in the media world could just disappear into another life somewhere. Witness relocation is for the hitmen, not the bosses. The very anonymity that Chris experiences in Hollywood I don't think could ever be realistic for Tony.

In relation to Artie, we see what happens when a person lets the things they know, the things that drive them, fade away. What is Tony great at? Being a criminal and a mob boss. Honestly, he has a talent for intimidating people, he's great at convincing people to do things they don't want to do, and he's very creative when it comes to milking money out of ventures on the criminal side. I don't think Tony can walk away from the only things he knows, the only things that drive him, and ultimately (I believe) the only things that give him pride in life (apart from maybe Meadow). Who is Tony without the mafia?

I agree with WGARYW that things are shaping up for serious tragedy in Tony's life, but I increasingly believe that witness protection or some such is not realistic. I also don't believe he can walk away from this life, because like Artie with cooking, he's only really alive when he's doing what he does best -- running the family.

I don't know, that was my impression. I agree that much of Christopher in Hollywood was throwaway material, but not everything in the show can be geared straight towards Tony, or it wouldn't be nearly as interesting a show. I think the value of these plot-lines about secondary characters are best seen in light of the way that the life experiences of his underlings are imputed to Tony. Remember, in the last couple of weeks we have had a very Paulie centric episode, and a very Vito centric episode. Without the cross-pollination of secondary plot lines, Tony's story would be far less compelling.



</p>

[chicoxl]

Very, very weak episode; easily one of the worst in the history of the show.

The Hollywood scenes did NOTHING to the show. Christopher's relapse was second-hand news to some Hollywood handouts and a tired, sophmoric plot-line.

The Artie stuff was fun, but I just don't get him. Last time we saw him, he was a groveling idiot who was going nowhere. His wife, rightly so, hated him for it. Now we're supposed to believe that she loves him again, even though he's the same idiot.

Really a waste of an episode. I'm very dissapointed. And, unlike all of you, I don't think mugging Lauren Bacal was that funny. In fact, it would never happen. A Capo of a crew would NEVER be involved in such petty thievery.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

i think yesterdays episode was something like the end of the planed anticlimax.
(after 2 years of tv break)now every character has been dealed with and each of the NJ characters is standing stronger than ever behind tony.
chris failed in california and is ready to support more loyal than ever, paulie is for one reason or another bloodthirstier than ever but has found his personal wire to the boss again, bobby bacala is working and him and tony are related now, Carlo just got the construction stuff and is thankful, Sil is tonys right hand and doesnt look capable of more nor does he want to.Tony even got a 1A bodyguard.
all visible rats have been cleared in the first episode already.
tonys real family members are somewhat busy with themselves:AJ is invisible and self centered, Meadow is running after Finn and Carmella has her house stuff and enough problems with herself, they all have problems but no life threatening ones.
Junior is out of reach for good.
The Rusty story is over and Artie has had his episode and leaves us in the end in a somewhat peaceful mood, everything looks a bit silent and peaceful, not too much to expect.

since it is so very peaceful right now a high climax might follow so that the fat lady can sing her final part again.
a climax might evolve through the earlier troublemaker vito which is on the run and the NY family which cant shut up and is probably after vitos ass <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> .

if this does not happen we have had factor x planted (the arabs have been seen thrice now) and also something might happen with angie(maybe even with patsy and benny) to let the show sleep away.

hope this isnt too speculative, but if.. move on, if not too much work lol.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/24/06 7:40 am

[bobC]

In the scene where Silvio makes his feeble attempt at his "open the books" speech, I have some question:

Who were the guys being "made?"

Who do they work for?
If Tony, why was Phil's crew present?
If Phil, why was Tony's crew present?

Observation: Phil appeared as a total idiot with his "Vito" speech.

Another observation: Artie is really annoying.

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

[Hrurusch]

these were Phils guys, one was the guy who did the thing with Heshs son-in-law, thats why Tony was saying 'no blood' when he stopped Sils speech.
I take it them celebrating in NJ is a sign, how much NY owns NJ...JS permanently giving orders too and all.might actually also be considered a peaceful gesture to celebrate in NJ.
Tony makes a remark though since he sees Phil soon after in a NJ restaurant again, so Tony isnt totally caving in.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/24/06 8:02 am

[DarngoodCoffee]

He said "to new blood", not "no" blood.

</p>

[haironmelfistwat]

I guess Frankie Vali ran out of seasons... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

</p>

[li]

I found myself looking at the clock hoping this ep would just end. The whole Chris story bored me stupid. And how out of charcter was Artie and Chamaine. Artie suddenly grew some balls and Charmaone was all caring and kind, did Chase mix them up or what?

Very weak ep, and has got me worried about the rest, we are six eps in and for ep seven we get a weak ep with no story advancement other than the rusty hit which just didnt seem important.

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">

</p>

[haironmelfistwat]

... and how 'bout that filthy mouth on Lauren Bacall. Tooooo funny.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If the Artie story could have been paired with a strong Tony or Soprano family episode, it would have been bang up, probably 3rd best of the season after eps 2 and 3.<hr></blockquote>

Fly, I agree completely. The Christopher shit was just an unbelievable waste of time. I got the feeling Ben Kingsley and Lauren Bacall even knew they didn't belong in the episode. When Tony and his family are not the center of the show, it drags or goes off in goofy directions...

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=haironme lfistwat@thechaselounge>haironmelfistwat</A> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/aodhan51/Irish-flag-sml.gif at: 4/24/06 8:50 am

[DarngoodCoffee]

Chicoxl said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Really a waste of an episode. I'm very dissapointed. And, unlike all of you, I don't think mugging Lauren Bacal was that funny. In fact, it would never happen. A Capo of a crew would NEVER be involved in such petty thievery<hr></blockquote>

I'm not trying to be rude here, but have you been watching the show? Paulie robbed an old woman in her own home for the money under her bed, and there's never been a problem with these guys taking whatever money they can get their hands on. I think you're way off saying that a capo would "never" do such a thing, especially since in the Sopranos universe they HAVE done it, over and over. Remember when Paulie and Chris shot the waiter, then made sure to recover the cash from the billfold?

You may not have found the scene amusing, that's cool, but I do think it is perfectly consistent with the characters we know.

</p>

[bobC]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>.. and how 'bout that filthy mouth on Lauren Bacall. Tooooo funny.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <hr></blockquote>

From what I've read about her that wasn't acting it's just her. I've heard that she's done some Friar's Roasts and her language and demeanor makes some of the male members blush.
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:">

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

[Hrurusch]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>He said "to new blood", not "no" blood.<hr></blockquote>
k, thx for that major input.

</p>

[bacala]

A lot of people have been complaining about the Cali / Christopher part of this episode and how it did nothing for the show, but I have to say it did bring something to my eyes. I have a pivotal moments in the series where I truly saw the horror that was some of these people. For example, when Paulie killed his mom's "friend" for the money under her bed.

This episode cemented to me what an out-of-control psycho Chris is. Don't know why the Adrianna thing didn't turn me sooner, but when Chris smacked Lauren Bacall for some Hollywood swag, I lost all respect for him. Plus the kid can't stay off the booze and coke after a million second chances. To me, if anything, the Cali / Christopher scenese re-inforced to me that Chris is worthless.

</p>

[SkinnyGinny]

i thought that the eps. had some good points. artie finding his balls and standing up for himself. but it does show a couple things, one that Benny is not made. if he was there would be no way that Artie would have gotten away with putting him in the ER. second, that Artie is starting to go down, he needs to watch the way that he talks to tony. even though there goods frineds if he says anything in public, tony is going to kick his ass.
I also found the Calf. story line boaring, i really wanted it to just end. it was so pointless. i really was disappointed with the Rusty hit, all that build up and than it just ended. i understand tony not saying anything to Phil, he just dosent want to get mixed up with any internal shit with NYC.
that preety much sums up the eps., the arab thing i have no idea where that is going. next weeks eps. should be good, i hope that AJ gets involved. i think though he is going to do something stupid and cost tony everything but still.

</p>

[Detective Hunt]

Honestly, I have to say I enjoyed the episode. I need to see it another time or two, but I have always enjoyed Artie as a sort of pull on Tony - and the other way around. Tony pulls Artie to "the life" while Artie pulls Tony away from it - recall the soccor coach from season one.

However, I must agree about Chris in Hollywood. I have never really appreciated his fascination with the movies and was pleased when they dropped that for a time. Though the initial meeting on "Cleaver" was hilarious, I did not really appreciate where it would lead.

Finally, I have to wonder - since when did Charmaine think it was OK to hang out with the Sopranos? It seemed to me she really has a strong dislike of Tony, and has distanced herself from Carm ever since the fund raiser incident from season one. I found that to be very strange.

</p>

[The Gray Eagle]

The Hollywood trip was significant because it was Chris' last chance to leave the mob life. This trip gave him one last chance to act on his lifelong dream, and he blew it.

There was no way he was going to get Kingsley to appear in his movie, but if he hadn't made a total fool of himself around every Hollywood person there, the dream might have stayed alive. He might have made a connection or two, or got someone more realistic to read his stupid script. Instead, he alienated everyone in the biz and fell off the wagon.

Ripping off Bacall was his F-you to Hollywood, an admission that he finally realized what everyone else has known-- that he was never going to accomplish anything there, or even fit in at all. He finally realized that he was a mobster to stay, so he did what mobsters do and robbed her.

The main characters (and some not so main characters) are all getting opportunities this season to leave The Life. They seem to each get a chance to get away from it. None of them have been able to yet, except Vito, and it looks like he's going to be dragged right back into it next week.


-----
"Congratulations to everyone connected to the Boston Red Sox. A great day in Boston. A great day in baseball. A great day in sports and a great day in American history."

10/27/04
</p>

[badabing187]

I think this was another in-your-face social commentary by Chase, reminded of me of the Christopher Columbus episode. No one liked thta episode either.

I think Ben Kingsley deserves an award for playing himself. That guy is a pretty good actor. Did anyone else think Ben was gonna get whacked in the elevator? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

[Garth]

I found this episode to be a low point. While often after this season's episodes, I have been finding it takes me a while to let it all sink in and actually decide if I liked it or not. Perhaps this is the case with this episode as well. But my gut reaction was dissapointment. There was forward motion for this seasons bigger plots, but it seemed out of place and just, well uneven. I enjoyed Artie's story, and I enjoyed Chris's story...at the beginning. But, by the time he was looking at stuff in the Luxury Lounge, I completely lost interest. Whenever guest stars find their way on to the Sopranos, it seems I am annoyed.

This episode definitely had it's moments, such as when Benny decided to take things a step further after Artie stood up to him at dinner. Tony is doing a great job of thinking things through and not being as compulsive as he used to be. In the very first episode, remember how Tony responds to Chris wanting to be involved in the movie business, he grabs him, curses and threatens him. He is now allowing him to go out to Cali on "business". Just shows how Tony's idea of the mob is deteriorating. Anyhow. I need to watch it again before I post anything of real substance. This is all just rambling, I apologize ;-)

</p>

[stcroix103]

On page 2 above, wgaryw said
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>. . . many of the characters lives are going to ultimately fall apart, contrasted with Tony's new point of view, which I feel has by this point shown to be inarguably sincere and persistent<hr></blockquote>Maybe Tony has grown, and now aspires to the nobility of Brando's mature, and DeNiro's young, Vito Corleone.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stcroix1 03>stcroix103</A> at: 4/24/06 11:09 am

[jimmythefish82]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm not trying to be rude here, but have you been watching the show? Paulie robbed an old woman in her own home for the money under her bed, and there's never been a problem with these guys taking whatever money they can get their hands on. I think you're way off saying that a capo would "never" do such a thing, especially since in the Sopranos universe they HAVE done it, over and over. Remember when Paulie and Chris shot the waiter, then made sure to recover the cash from the billfold?<hr></blockquote>

DGC,

Agree with you 100%. I think a more accurate thing to say would be an "intelligent capo" would never be involved in petty thievery! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

Seriously, I can't really picture Silvio or Phil L, let alone Tony or Johnny Sac (and I dont think it's coincidence that I am specifically naming the higher ranking/old school guys here) doing such a thing, but Chris is not the sharpest tool in the box and neither is Paulie. For these guys when it comes to making money, 'any hole's a goal' so to speak - they dont care about where it comes from (completely devoid of morals).

Fully agree it is in-keeping with Chris' character to do so.

</p>

[JerryTheAngel]

This was a throw away episode. A waste of my time.

No repurcussions from hitting Rusty from anybody in New York? Hits of more minor characters reverberated more then a farily high up hit on Rusty. Lame.

The Hollywood garbage bored me to tears. Bringing in actors to play themselves on any series does nothing for me. It's a cheap way to try to attract more viewers by inserting "movie stars".

When Juinor, AJ, Carmella, Paulie, & Silvio aren't having any storylines developing their characters as we come down the stretch of the end of the series, all I can take from this is that Chase is running out of ideas for the main characters.

Luxury Lounge? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

</p>

[Hrurusch]

anybody get how chris offered tony a trip to australia from the robbed hamper?
i take it using this thing means insta handcuffs, wonder if we will see it again.

edit:the womens watch and the burberry bag were most funny though.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/24/06 10:51 am

[bacala]

Tony won't use it. He learned his lesson about using stolen plain tickets from the end of season 2.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

he doesnt know its stolen, and yes of course he wont use it, he said it right away...the point was merely how 'smart' of chris to give him the ticket, that could have been his own death there.and i was wondering if we see the ticket again.

</p>

[stcroix103]

On page 2, above, Boss Fly said <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Did anyone think Chris and Carmine stood a snowball's chance in hell of getting Ben Kingsley to commit to their idiotic slasher film?<hr></blockquote> Well, he committed to this idiotic episode, didn't he? :)

</p>

[peeayebee]

I enjoyed it.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Ben Kingsley was so taken with himself (“Sir Ben actually”) and had obvious contempt for those like Chris, Little Carmine and Murmur who were not (in his eyes) his equal...<hr></blockquote>
Well, YEAH! I had contempt for Chris and Little Carmine too. I thought it was great when Kingsley corrected Chris with 'Sir Ben, actually,' because he wanted absolutely nothing to do with him and was trying to put more distance betw them -- Since he couldn't manage to do that physically, he would do it thru class (meaning stature).

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Ben Kingsley’s narcissistic attitude was on display from the very moment he entered the storyline. When he was on the phone with his agent, he wanted to know why he had to talk to Chris and Little Carmine, all the while being more interested in which expensive designer shirt would look better on him. He obviously didn’t want to meet these mo-mo “nobodys”.<hr></blockquote>
Although I think the little narcisstic touches were nice, I find no fault with him trying to find out why these two guys are important. Successful actors are always being approached with scripts and so forth. They need their agents to screen all the offers, etc. I figure his agent told him something like "I owe a friend a favor," because didn't Kingsley say something like, "Jesus." ? Anyway, I felt very sorry for him being unable to escape these two morons.

As far as the value of the Hollywood plot goes -- It certainly was encapsulated by Chris's misstated "The Haves and the Have Nots." (Someone else here discussed that.) I liked the newspaper headline Chris and Murmur look at regarding Bacall's mugging (which was hilarious), that Hollywood is going to reconsider the sanity of giving away such freebies. Not that it would happen, but it shows that the Haves are content with their bounty -- their Luxury Lounge -- until the riff raff invades their turf. Perhaps this is a parallel with Benny stealing from Artie, though maybe not.

But poor Artie. Poor, pitiful Artie. Did anyone else expect him to fall off the boat and drown? I have to say that I admire Tony's sticking by him. And there were several times in this ep (as in the last couple) where Tony responded to some effront or challenge in a very mild, compassionate way. Maybe he really IS turning it around.

</p>

[Backyard Bear]

The episode was a big letdown, particularly on the heels of "Live Free or Die" which might have been one of the funniest, smartest 60 minutes in TV history.

Agree with previous posts about how the Hollywood thing was essentially useless. And the idea that Christopher smacks up Lauren Bacall was utterly ridiculous. The whole Rusty storyline could have taken us places, but that came up short. Artie was a good avenue to get to Tony, which may have been the only redeeming quality to the episode.


</p>

[HagensBing1977]

I'd always thought Benny's name was "Benjamin". It was interesting, then, when Artie called him "Benito", as in Benito Mussolini.

Another quick hit- The kids that were fighting (with no parents to be seen) I thought was a good twist. It showed how inpersonal the new restaurant was, especially as compared to Vesuvio's big-brother style.

</p>

[CaliberCutChops]

Initially an overall weak episode, with the only reason to watch being Charmaine's bountiful tits (to be more crude, I agree with the sentiments of the cook completely). Anyway, I would have said that it could be possible you could just skip this episode and not really miss anything, but then I had to remember the Rusty hit. It's sad that I actually forgot at the end that Rusty died, which meant it was badly handled for me and reflected on what was a poor episode. However, after some analysis, I find things that make this one interesting...

Artie
My take on this episode was about the issue's that the common man has to deal with, and his limitations as opposed to those on top. Look at the conversation between Artie and Tony, regarding the stripper. He laments about how T could, if he wanted, fuck her. Yet for Artie, the average Joe, the best he could hope for is some lap-dancing, a dry hump, and a climax in your pants (funny). I think his character remarks on how unfair life is, supported by him reacting to Tonys philosophy on the boat "Yeah, I know, life's unfair.", as opposed to his outside view of Tony and his mob life.

His philosophy, past from his father, was to the virtues of hard and legitimate work. With hard work, you would become successful, Artie mentioned on the boat. But look where it's gotten him to this point: a restaurant that is becoming a burden, someone in the staff now leading to a credit card company investigating towards the establishment, and not to mention workers who steal from the restaurant at times. This life of apparent failure is eating away at him, and his anger is starting to have him react on his worser impulses.

He even castigates his ideal-man Tony, who doesn't pay his tab (and as a credit to his change, doesn't react the way you'd think Tony would react). This is given as a metaphor by the rabbit, who is stealing Artie's hard work (his seeds brought home in a cigar box, I think) from him. He shoots the free-loader, and ends up cooking it to customers who show up at closing time. I would have also added to Artie's resentments a wife who is always critical, but I have to say that Charmaigne has really changed from her past self. Others have remarked that she is out of character, and I would have said that myself, but maybe during their reconciliation she changed herself and became more supportive. It's possible.

Anyway, this jealousy and resentment is again reiterated with the hostess position, which Adriana once occupied. Artie, I think, saw Adriana as that unattainable ideal woman of his dreams. Maybe he didn't love her, but he loved the recognition her acceptance would have given him from his lifestyle, a lifestyle that he sees all the time when he visits Tony's world and sees the good time they all have, with little consequence from his perspective. He wants to be one of the guys in a world he sees as glamorous, but cannot. He also doesn't like how Martina is more attracted to the criminal to which life is more glamorous (like Christoper) rather than a legitimate businessman like himself, despite all his covert calls for intimacy (teaching her to drive, the greencard, etc). He see's a girl like Martina, who he would like to fuck to prove his manhood and self-worth, but whose outright refusal to accept him in spite of all he has done for her , and whose acceptance of Benny instead irks him greatly. It only serves to reaffirm his world view, which might have been brought on by himself (Tonys advice in the back). I think this is slowly making Artie into the raging man he is right now, so I think this radical character change is palpable. Right after he kick's Benny's ass (go common man!), he remarks "Who's stupid?" to Benny. This was probably what was eating him up the whole time, that despite his attempts to be that "man" around Martina, the whole time she and Benny were laughing at him while she was fucking him atop all the money she stole. She would never fuck him, she states, cementing the rejection.

He wanted to be the tough (remember that French guy who screwed Artie's investment in that wine venture) and successful guy that Tony is, but he is rejected because of who he is (does it sound like the episode hit a nerve? heh heh), and the thought of Martina and Benny laughing at does him in. He wants respect and success, but is no getting "Salierie'd" (hat tip to earlier poster) by the new wave personified by Don Giovanni. His attempts at humor with his guests are even rebuffed. First, by Charmaigne, which he regards as not worthy if hurtful, but then from Tony, which does have it sink in. Ouch.

So when Benny burns his right hand, his sauteing hand, Artie has to learn to cook again with his left hand. He gets a recipe from his father's cookbook, and learns how to cook again. This time, the music that is playing is passionate, which I think is he re-connection with his muse: cooking. Hope it gets his character on the up and up. Artie versus Don Giovanni? I'll see that.

Also, damn Artie, but that remark about getting Benny a "Martina" was quite the burn. I never thought he would go farther after he was saved, but he kept pushing and pushing. Wow.

Quotes
This episode had some good ones. Artie with his "Martina" comment, Ben Kinglsey with his "FU-UCK", Bacall with her swearing, the cook on Charmaignes tits, and Phil.

Christopher
Christopher's trip to California added another element to this plight of the common man. Although he isn't common by any means, Christopher is an outsider to the world that he admires (just like Artie). He wants to be in the glamorus world of the movie business where movie stars get free gifts handed to them like kids in a candy store. In one shot, he cannot believe that this sort of thing actually happens to people like Kingsley, and he wants in. But he finds that not only he can not live up to his dream (just like Artie), but is rejected by Hollywood as well. He wants to be in the movies, to be behind the scenes ("a player"), but all his attempts to be a friend to Ben Kingsley, representing Hollywood elite, are rejected. Add to that his weak impulses in the form of prostitutes, drugs, and alcohol, and he fails again for himself (I'm surprised by how dedicated AA members are against alcohol, by the way. "Murmur" reacts to him drinking in concerned pity, but he does mob work on the side too. Funny.). In fact, Hollywood pretty much rejects him, and he returns to New Jersey a mobster again, not a player. But before he does, he punches Lauren Bacall, personifying Hollywood glamour, right in the face (by the way, what a souvenier huh? Think of seeing her in the movies and saying "Yeah, I punched that bitch in the face.". Awesome.) and steals her free gifts. He reacts to his rejection.

In a storyline that is more similar and now makes me appreciate the whole episode, Artie is the same as Chris is in their desires, but ending in their rejection. Chris is in the world Artie fantasizes about, but he isn't as happy as he wants to be either. It's like a chain-effect.

Phil
I think Phil is still murky on Vito, just my thoughts (sarcasm).

Tony
Tony has changed, no doubt about that. It was touching how he was talking to Artie on the boat about how he hates to see him in his condition, cause he starts to think of some "crazy shit" (ha). Also, his anecdote about that time in the first season when he brought his family over in the rain was also touching, and Artie appreciated it too. He was really blunt about Artie's humor though, but this is the Tony who helped save Artie again from death at the hands of an associate.

Boat camera work
There was bad camera-work, though. The boat trip with the Bucco's and Sopranos was badly done. I know, shooting out in the sea can be tough, but they've done it before (Pussy's death, Tony and AJ, etc). Bad.

Overall
It's funny, with this much analysis of the episode, I actually want to see it again. I find this storyline sort of interesting, actually, and have to upgrade my initial thought of a "weak" episode to a "good" episode. It is sort of a side-story about the plight of a man not reaching his dreams, though, so it is inconsequential to the overall storyline. Its like something that could have been done on the side. But I have to say I do like it more than before. Hmm.

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

HagensBing:

One of the kids was Vito's...Vito's wife was asking the other kid where his parents were. The end credits include "Vito Jr.", and that's why we saw Vito's wife breaking it up.

</p>

[CaliberCutChops]

I forgot to mention. I noticed that Ben Kinglsey reacting and getting all those free gifts at the hotel where JUST the same as when Christopher presented Tony his bounty from California. Tony rummaged through and picked something to his liking, just like Kingsley.

But I have to say that I don't get the ending with the two Italians and their commentary on the weak dollar. Any thoughts? As noted before, that was David Chase, by the way, in the background.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

well, in 2000 when the euro was invented you got 0,85$ per euro, now you are getting 1,24$ for the same euro.thats quite a bit since the prices in the US probably did not raise.
if im wrong here, somebody correct me please <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> .


edit: 15-20 years ago it was the other way around and everybody went to italy for shopping, marlboro in italy for 80 cents, closed and armani jeans 25$ , cheap leatherjackets etc., now it has turned it seems.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hrurusch>Hrurusch</A> at: 4/24/06 1:26 pm

[bobC]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>HagensBing: One of the kids was Vito's...Vito's wife was asking the other kid where his parents were. The end credits include "Vito Jr.", and that's why we saw Vito's wife breaking it up.<hr></blockquote>

The reason she was attempting to breakup the kids was because one of them referred to her son as "Homo, Jr."

I didn't catch it at first, but the 2nd time I watched it I clearly heard "Hey, Homo, Jr."

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bcorsale>bcorsale</A> at: 4/24/06 1:36 pm

[Hrurusch]

yepp right, quite brutal lol.
same scene we have carmella and tony talking about how bad vesuvio is compared to the new place atmosphere- and food-wise.
artie really has a problem it seems, maybe he can strike back with his newly found love for the old recipes, if not his business might be going down soon.

</p>

[bacala]

CaliberCutChops - one thought I had about the Italians talking about the gifts they were bringing back home was in an opposite comparison to what Chris brought back home.

Chris' trip to Hollywood was a big failure. He wanted into the Hollywood elite; he wanted acceptance. But at the end, when he didn't get it handed to him and he was too lazy to really work for it (got coked up), he decided to steal for it.

On the other hand, you got two Italians who are excited to be in America (wanted to see the two towers, tried to make friends with the gun guy), had a successful work project completed, and at the end used their hard-earned money to actually pay for gifts to bring back home (I assumed they paid b/c they were talking about cost and the euro).

just my two cents....

</p>

[billymac]

The more I think about this episode, the more I realize that the driving force behind the interwoven story lines was “loss of focus”. Christopher, reaching for impossible Hollywood success dreams, lost his focus on the “family” business. Artie, stubbornly attempting to be an “entertaining and convivial” host (a la Bobby Flay, Mario Battaglia or Emeril), lost his focus on the reason for his restaurant’s popularity (the food). Benny, while engaging in mob business, lost his focus on the target of his enterprise.

In the end Tony had to point out to all of them where they had gone astray. He made sure that Christopher realized that his failure to focus on his crew had resulted in the feud between Artie and Benny. He bluntly told Artie to stop being a pain in the ass to customers with stupid jokes and stories, advising him to put more time into cooking and staying in the kitchen. He told Benny that he was wrong to “shit” where Benny (and more importantly) Tony (literally) eat.

The issue of focus was also briefly illustrated at the Vesuvio party for the 2 newly made men. When Sil began giving a rambling and unfocused speech, Tony quickly cut him off to get to the point.

The same is true of Phil’s wine laced rant at that same dinner. Phil’s focus should have been giving credit to the 2 newly made men, not using the occasion as an excuse for a put down of Vito. Tony knows that this kind of misfocus can result in recurring questions concerning his actions to “take care” of Vito, something that he has been reluctant to face.

Even some of the Vesuvio staff was prone to lose focus. When Artie was lecturing them about the seriousness of stealing customer credit card numbers, two of them are speaking about their sexual fantasies (involving Charmane’s breasts).


These thoughts have probably been previously expressed more articulatley by other board members, but I have struggling with this episode. I have been trying to get my hands around it's contribution to the show, especailly Tony's future, refusing to accept (just yet) that it was "filler" or "wasted time". I can only make this episode meaningful by connecting the dots through the "loss of focus" aspect. And I hoped that posting this feeble theory might generate discussion of the episode by the many members who are far more intelligent than I, to further shed light or meaning on this episode.

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

Way to go billymac, very insightful.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billymac 72261>billymac72261</A> http://www.planet-familyguy.com/downloads/wallpapers/rupert/1stewie1024x768.jpg at: 4/24/06 4:37 pm

[Hrurusch]

what does everybody think about the scene in the new restaurant?
the whole scene in the new restaurant looks a bit 'weird' to me, the whole place in milky colours makes me think of tonys dream experience, looks a bit like the finnerty reunion mansion could have looked from the inside.
there is a scene where phil tells tony how people could be angry about the hit on rusty, he then says how his (phils) heart is an open book though and he is looking at tony as if he wants to kill him right away.he then says'anyways, rusty is gone and talking to the headless horseman'(hope i heard that one right).
then a woman says 'Giovanni' and everybody starts clapping and the restaurant chef appears and 4 waiters with big trays spread out from him. then we see the chef, dressed in all black standing in front of an armoire, and the whole thing looks a bit like the thing in the house in tonys coma sequence when tony was peeking inside.i just rewatched the scene where tony peeks inside when he is at the finnerty place and when he peeked inside everybody inside started clapping as well.
well, way off there is the johannes(giovanni) apocalypse with the 4 riders/waiters, and the hair colours of the waiters somewhat match the appearance of the 4 horses and there are 7 seals, 7 towns, 7 pots etc. the 7 seals are broken by a lamb, carmella was having lamb in that scene.that giovanni guy looks a bit devilish too :P.tonys face is not shown again after the woman says 'giovanni'.
well, ermm, guess im again miles off here and there wouldnt be time in 6-7 episodes to fill and finish that but it all looked a bit similar to me.

</p>

[chicoxl]

I'm not trying to be rude here, but have you been watching the show? Paulie robbed an old woman in her own home for the money under her bed, and there's never been a problem with these guys taking whatever money they can get their hands on. I think you're way off saying that a capo would "never" do such a thing, especially since in the Sopranos universe they HAVE done it, over and over. Remember when Paulie and Chris shot the waiter, then made sure to recover the cash from the billfold?
=============================================

But you're forgetting how desperate Paulie was at the time of the geri-whacking. He KNEW that he messed up with Johnny Sack, and he had to get back in Tony's good graces any way he could.

Besides, he didn't go there to kill her. He went there to rob her. She wasn't supposed to be home. What made him kill her was her "effing mouth." It was impulse.

For Chris to pull off the Bacall robbery (am I even typing this?!?) he had to plan it out, buy suits, and stake the scene out. It must have taken him hours to plan it.

Why would a Capo take hours to play a robbery that netted him less than perhaps any other he's been involved in?

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[garygizmo]

Just a few comments.

Given this season's emphasis on materialism and greed, the Hollywood scenes certainly developed the themes of "wretched excess" and selfishness. I'll give Chris a pass on stealing the basket, because someone had told Chris that the presenters' baskets were worth "thirty grand." But I honestly think Chase just wanted to take a few shots at Hollywood, and since the series is winding down, he took the opportunity he had. I don't blame him much. Hemingway spends eighty pages in For Whom the Bell Tolls describing an ambulance driver's journey from the front lines to a hospital at the back, for no other reason than to do "war journalism." I'll grant Chase his desire to satirize the narcissism and excess of Hollywood; it's probably personal on his part. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

On the subject of Tony's growth, the BIG difference in this episode is that he actually tries to help Artie--sends him the credit-card payoff plus some from his pocket, tells Benny to do his parents' party at Vesuvio's, suggests that Artie see Melfi. In the past, Tony has always exploited situations like Artie's to his benefit--remember when he "helped" Artie in return for Artie wiping out his tab? This time, Tony didn't ask for anything. WOW!

My guess is that Chase is going to end the series as a tragedy, but for the show to be tragic, Tony needs to grow, to gain self-awareness (something he's been working for since the show opened). In fact, I suspect the tragedy will be, in some way, Tony's inability to use his newfound awareness, or to enjoy it, or to benefit from it. He'll have the awareness, but it won't do him any good. Meanwhile, as Tony grows, we see many around him becoming more self-centered and greedy, while others suffer (Artie, for example, or even Vito). Tony has been rejecting the materialism of the greedy ("there's enough garbage to go around") and actually empathizing with the sufferers (Artie, Vito). But as with most tragic characters, the realizations come too late, after the sequence of tragic events is already in motion.

The hitmen in the plane? They're just as obsessed with material goods as everyone else, bragging about stuff they bought "cheap" in NY, because the euro is strong against the dollar. But it's still "stuff," just as Chris's basket is "stuff," just as the Luxury Lounge is "stuff," and none of it is stuff that anybody really needs.

Thanks again. Enjoyed reading everybody's "stuff." <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

garygizmo:

I realized as I read your post that it is a real testament to Chase, the writers, and the cast of this show that even though I believe something tragic will happen to Tony (his death, the death of someone in his immediate family, or something else), I still resist indications of his moral recuperation because I know it heralds the end.

I find myself on one level agreeing with everything that you and others who are thinking along the same lines say, and on the other hand wanting to argue against it, as though that might prevent the tragedy from occurring.

Truly a remarkable show.

</p>

[MrTaste]

loss of focus


billy.. not a feeble theory at all.. in fact, quite plausible.. it amuses me that so many people are so quick to say.. 'this episode sucked' or words to that effect.. remember, we're not watching a typical tv drama here. i believe every scene in every episode is there to be a small brushstroke in the enormous canvas that's being painted here.. i personally loved the artie story.. especially when he gets out the old recipe book... when you see him cooking, you know that those latecomers are going to have one of the best meals of their lives... he sure as hell was 'focused' again wasnt he? hollywood.. well.. having been on the periphery of that culture for many years i found it hilarious.. kingsley and bacall were great sports to allow themselves to be portrayed that way... if you really think Sir Ben acts in that fashion in real life.. well... betty bacall on the other hand, does indeed swear like a sailor and is all the more delicious for it.. we all talk about how stupid carmine junior is.. tony says.. 'the guys a known retard'... this week we saw that the beloved Chris is no slouch in the 'retard' game.. 'the haves and have nots''' and this from a guy who claims to love hollywood and know all about it's inner workings.. and the rusty hit, and subsequent airplane scene at the end? well these guys are focused too.. and good shoppers.. it's a caustic comment about world economics and i think the fact that he's in the background displays the fact that mr chase is making sure you know this is his personally honed barb at our wonderful government's poor performance in every area, including trade... so bitch away at how 'chase is wasting time with only a few episodes to go'... i've not become so jaded as to forget that the worst episode of the sopranos ever produced is better than ninety five percent of everything else on television.. as i've said before.. lighten up.

</p>

[MrTaste]

gee i wish i'd made that my fiftieth post.. well here it is.. do i get a chip or something?

</p>

[Zillajay23]

The Chris storyline obviously wasn't the strongest but it did have a point and it was summed up right before he left with Tony saying what am I going to do with you, Chris no matter how many times you think he is going to be ambitious and straight he always has that weakness in him he always reverts to old ways always has and always will. He has always come back to Tony though no matter how bad he messes up but this was a set up for I think a bitter end between Tony and Chris. Tony saying that about Adriana to Chris might not have seemed much as we watched but I think that could have severed the tie or at least loosened it and it could break.

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

billymac72261 said:
I have struggling with this episode. I have been trying to get my hands around it's contribution to the show, especailly Tony's future, refusing to accept (just yet) that it was "filler" or "wasted time".

*********

I feel the same way. As others have also noted, I view all the episodes now through the prism of Tony's experiences and look for some large, obvious signs or metaphors of clear advancement. But maybe it's a gradual thing -- the fact we can now accept him taking Artie's attitude without flying off the handle may be a credit to how far he's come this season.

Whereas in earlier episodes following the coma Tony did seem weak and vacillating, in this episode he seemed in control and, dare I say, wise (looking Benny in the eye to firmly tell him the feud with Artie was over, dealing with Christopher, leveling with Artie).

I can only contribute two observations that may be real stretches:

1. The episode was about greed, yet Tony was the only character to NOT appear greedy, at least symbolically, by not "taking credit" for the Rusty hit (even if he was just being cautious, it was a contrast between the others just mindlessly taking).

2. When Tony was reading the menu at Vesuvio and seemed annoyed by Carm's mother reading aloud, I got a slight sense of deja vu to the opening scene of the previous episode when he was poolside trying to read the magazine and was annoyed by the rattling radiator A/C. I'm sure the look fell in the same category, but I have no idea if there is some parallel or deeper meaning or if it just means Carm's mother is full of hot air. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Next week looks like a killer episode, so I'll content myself that this was more or less a stand-alone ep, like the Polly Bergen episode last season or even Pine Barrens, where no major plot points were advanced.

</p>

[Corrado Junior Soprano]

Hey does anyone here have any knowledge of how AA works? On a conceptual level? I've been pretty impressed with what I've seen of it on the show. First the relationship between Chris and JT, and their exchanges regarding staying sober. I think the first time I took notice was the gym scene after Chris and JT had their lunch meeting. Chris says something like 'hey I told you about mine...did you slip? The way you ran outta that lunch; you weren't high?' when JT convinces him, Chris 'man, I thought you were using for sure.' When have we ever known Chris to care about anything? Kinda stuck out... Also what JT said to him at the Bing later about 'you gotta call me before you use.'
Smaller things here and there also. And now that phone call from Chris telling Murmur to get down here, and when he shows up Chris drops the bottle and immidiatley takes heart b/c now he knows he'll straighten out. That struck me as so incredibly brilliant. B/c lets face it, we all need help sometimes, and something as simple as the presence of another member is enough to give heart to these guys. It's a known fact about goal setting that you should announce your goal publicly (rather then keeping it private) so you've got more incentive since you've declared the goal and you now have the pressue of the public eye. So you can't think 'well so what If I don't achieve it - who will know?'. This seems like an extension of that concept. And the only thing the recovering people have to be convinced of, is 'its okay to call my sponser for help, regardless of anything.' I thought it was brilliant.

Now I don't even drink or smoke or anything, so no need for anybody to go there, but It's been a point of interest for me (hell, this is a show about psychology), since this AA concept can kinda be stretched to really any kind of misery inflicted on people. Hell, just the general misery and pitfalls of life are enough to warrant a similar buddy system...

So does anybody know about this stuff? We have some pretty knowledgable people on these boards, so I thought I'd ask...

</p>

[Zillajay23]

There were major plot lines in both of those Pine Barens you had the Paulie alienation plot line from Tony also you get to see the real crazy Gloria throwing the roast at Tony, and In Camelot you had Tony and Phil anomosity build up when he ran him off the road, and finding out about his fathers past was pretty big and important to Tony as a character bringing up his Mother again.

</p>

[The Bing]

While not a 5 star episode, it was still entertaining, and had interesting story lines. There were a number of themes in this episode. This episode reminded me of the episode of the contrast of of the lives of Meadow vs. the go-go dancer-girlfriend that got killed by Ralphie. We saw the contrast of he lives of Chris and Artie, of having to work for the money (Artie and his resturant) vs. the easy money (Chris) and the difficulties each have.
Greed was a major theme. I do agree that Chase was making a personal statement about the greed and spoils of Hollywood via the Chris' trip to La-La Land and the swag givaways to the Hollywood elite. We saw the greed of the guy heading the credit card scam, even working it at Artie's place. The greed of the hostess who was part and got some kickback for the credit card scam. The greed of the motel owner. I do love the connections in greed of Italian mobsters a strict Jew, Arabs/Muslims, an immigrant and so on.
Focus or lack of it was another theme. Chris, Artie, the other mobsters all had a lack of focus that was hurting each other. Chris was focusing on getting into the Movie business, at way too high of a level. Of course he took his revenge by stealing he goodies from Lauren Bacall. Phil is focused on getting revenge upon Vito for hurting his blood relative (Vito's wife) over focusing on his mob duties. Artie lost focus, where his wife and eventually Tony gets him to focus on the kitchen which is a strength and good for his business, not in getting attention as the host. He also lost focus on the nastyness between him and the credit card mobster/scammer. The hit guys, while they were tempted to lose focus, they did their job and took advantage of their trip for some goodies to take home.
In contrast, we saw Tony improving his focus, making careful decisions, taking his time, watching what he says, making sure to keep others happy in his mob family. That included taking care of the hit on Rusty, having it done right and keeping in good with Johnny Sack. I think too Tony fears ending up like Sack in jail or dead, which he came awful close too already.

</p>

[Soda drink]

Awesome post, Billymac. I couldn't have said it any better.

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