Episode Review and General Comments

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

Please post all "Holy $hit", "WOW!", and general or abbreviated comments about the episode here. Use individual threads for longer or more substantive thoughts/discussion points.

This thread will be opened immediately before the episode airs on the east coast HBO feed.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonmel fiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/9/06 1:21 am

[jayneezy]

so far i agree with Christopher....i don't think them doin the rusty hit is a good idea....

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

First -- WOW, talk about a plot-advancing episode. I think the writers might have sensed that some viewers would be hankering for things to move a little faster, and boy did they put that coma in the past (plot events wise) and kick up the notch for action and drama to come.

Issues of first impression:

Obviously Meadow-looking anorexic daughter of Johnny Sacc's commenting "can't we ever talk about anything other than food?" -- echo Meadow's guilt over having said "Jesus! Why is there never any food in this house?"

The smoking hot stripper that had been dancing on Chrissy -- SORRY! She made an impression...

What was the deal with Carm throwing out the garbage?

Johnny Sacc: "Have you READ an issue of GQ in the past 3-4 years?"

Tony's total acceptance of Finn as a potential husband for Meadow.

Meadow's outrage over the government making Johnny Sacc pay for the heightened security. Defense attorney maybe?

It's pretty obvious that Junior has totally lost it.

Tonight's episode sure painted a rough picture that incarceration is no breeze, and that's for sure.

They are hitting this gay Vito subject like trying to take out a fly with a sledgehammer. At least its headed toward the open.

The "Act as if" line cribbed from Boiler Room...great stuff.

Melfi session let me down.

Wouldn't the bodyguard get wacked just for raising his arm against the boss?

Once again, Tony can't "stomach" the elements of being the boss. Also, was that blood that we were graphically shown as he was throwing up? Is his inability to handle it getting worse?








</p>

[EdaMaria]

The 'Jimmy' song ... again! For some reason this song freaked me out last time ... and it's back!!!

I'm not sure I like how it's being used ... though I'll reserve judgement for now. (is this song going to come on now everytime a character is doomed?)



</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>What was the deal with Carm throwing out the garbage?<hr></blockquote>

DGC: I think she is trying to censor Tony's news intake about Uncle Junior (or as the Star Ledger dubbed him: "Don Squirrel Leone").

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billymac 72261>billymac72261</A> http://www.planet-familyguy.com/downloads/wallpapers/rupert/1stewie1024x768.jpg at: 4/9/06 8:14 pm

[jayneezy]

good episode tonight...this season is one for the records....

Tony fuckin up his bodyguard was funny......

Vito gettin caught dressed like one of the village ppl in a gay bar.......LMAO they will probably find out about him next week...those guys will have to tell somebody......

Johnny got some problems.....his crying really brought out the wolf in Phil......i think he is very vunerable right now....

</p>

[Zillajay23]

Great episode as usual lots of plot advancement as said I have a question though does anybody know the name of the bald guy he's been in a few episodes last season and this season the one who was basically trying to wait on Tony hand and foot they never say his name I try to see the credits but am not sure.

</p>

[Niko427]

Very good episode - I think HBO should be getting Steve Buscemi to direct all episodes<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

Few Questions about the end where Tony is looking at everyone.

1.) What was the significance of Paulie's tattoo

2.) Why was he asking Bobby how much he weighed?

3.) Why did they show the guy (I forget his name) that was the one who helped his mother out when she was sick so many times and from what I remember nothing stood out to me to look at.

Thanks in advance to everyone.

</p>

[RDeol]

LOVED this episode. And as someone mentioend before, yes, Junior's lost it. This guy's life has become a tragedy. Who knows how long he's gonna be couped up for at the ''institution."



</p>

[kevaxe2k1]

He was looking a Paulie's biceps, same with the other dudes--sizing them up to take on the toughest one.

</p>

[Zillajay23]

No it's not Georgie because they were both in the series last season he was one of the cigarette guys when Chris had the Van and he's been on a few other times guess it's not important but just always bothered me

</p>

[jayneezy]

i think his name is Eddie Pietro

</p>

[Zillajay23]

That was one of the names in the credits I thought either him or Anthoy Infante

</p>

[Ellspeth]

Vito: Dead or Alive?

I'm guessing alive...

</p>

[Niko427]

The big bald guy (Tony's new bodyguard - or is he?) was not in season 5 at the cigarette van. It was little Paulie and the guy playing basketball with Bobby in today's episode.

</p>

[billymac]

Ominous that Vito called Silvio at 3:00?

</p>

[Zillajay23]

Not the body guard bald guy the guy who scraped the onions out of T's bialy's and took his shoes off he was in season 5 he was one of the guys at the warehouse that told Chris about Adriana and Tony's accident.

</p>

[Niko427]

nice catch billymac.. I didn't even notice that

</p>

[mike227]

vito called sil to make sure sil hadent heard about him at the gay bar yet

</p>

[gistenhose]

I thought Carm getting the paper at the end of the drive like Tony usually does shows how she's taking a more active role in his biz.

Melfi's comment about people showing what they want you to see. I think Junior is still 'acting' and so is Johnny Sac with the crying and having Rusty killed. He's forcing the powerplay to happen while he's in prison.

I guess Rusty isn't old enough to be Russ?

Not getting the 3am phone call from Vito.



</p>

[Niko427]

I recall in the first episode of season 6 that Tony said when at Ray Curto's funeral something like "Not a day over 76".

So Although Tony Sirico is in his 60s I believe, I think Pauile is supposed to be in his mid 50s or so? Anyways, Its possible for Rusty to be his father being that he is 20 years older than him - or something like that.

This could be a major plot line if Paulie finds out that if Tony goes through and wacks Rusty - there will be a major conflict between the two.

</p>

[jayneezy]

I think something is going to happen between Junior and AJ.......that place they took Junior looked like the place we see AJ running away scared from in the trailer for the season...

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

Wow, $450,000 for a wedding. I wonder if that includes the security.

</p>

[capobrendan]

jayneezy, good eye. Based on the preview (I watched it again), I would put good cash on that it's the same place AJ is seen running out of.

</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Not getting the 3am phone call from Vito.<hr></blockquote>

I made reference to the timing of the call being at 3:00 because when Christopher was shot and in the hospital in "From Where To Eternity" he returns from his coma "hell" with a message for Tony and Paulie from MiKey Palmice. The message is "Three O'Clock".

</p>

[Niko427]

Something about today's episode made me believe that Junior was acting big time. I can't explain it, but what I think is that Junior shot Tony willingly so that he could get out of his re-trial.

</p>

[gistenhose]

billymac, I recall the reference to 3:00 when Chris got out and the warning to Tony and Paulie.

I also think we heard 3 was when Tony 'died' or flatlined this season.

What I can't get, and what is confusing to me is why Vito called Sil at 3? I always think is has implicatins for Tony and/or Paulie.

A part of me still thinks Tony died at 3am, and everything from now on is his 'hell'.

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

gistenhose:

I could be wrong about this, but I think 3:00 AM is the time that Jesus supposedly was resurrected.

</p>

[JohnnySac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>
What I can't get, and what is confusing to me is why Vito called Sil at 3? I always think is has implicatins for Tony and/or Paulie.<hr></blockquote>

No no... Vito called to see if the news had spread regarding him being gay.

</p>

[jayneezy]

Didn't Jesus die @ 3 also

</p>

[Alas1119]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I thought Carm getting the paper at the end of the drive like Tony usually does shows how she's taking a more active role in his biz.<hr></blockquote>

I thought the exact same thing.

Vito is not long for this world either. LOL

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

I was struck by the subtle conflict between Tony and Chris. Even when they were showing off scars and talking about their injuries, it seemed like there was some one-upsmanship going on (spleen vs. sepsis).

</p>

[Soda drink]

i believe chris and tony were simply just comparing balls and it was all good fun - nothing to worry about. I still believe chrissy despite all the BS will always have tony's back.

</p>

[phishin4me]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I was struck by the subtle conflict between Tony and Chris. Even when they were showing off scars and talking about their injuries, it seemed like there was some one-upsmanship going on (spleen vs. sepsis).<hr></blockquote>

I'd say that is part of the "people think he is weak" theme.

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/rickgeisen/001.jpg

"If you were supposed to watch your mouth all the time,
I doubt your eyes would be above it"

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

jayneezy:

I think he supposedly died at 3 PM on Friday and was resurrected at 3 AM on Sunday.

</p>

[Jason the Magnificent]

Tony was being a ballbuster with Rusty at Curto's funeral...hes not really 76...its called sarcasm.

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think he supposedly died at 3 PM on Friday and was resurrected at 3 AM on Sunday.<hr></blockquote>

Whoa.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richinnj>Rich in NJ</A> at: 4/9/06 9:07 pm

[jayneezy]

Thanks DarngoodCoffee......that is something....




</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

Did we see whether Vito committed suicide, or was it just very strongly implied?

As far as I saw, and I might be forgetting something, he was in the hotel room after telling his wife he was going to take a shower, he called Sil, then looked at his gun a couple of times.

I think the last time he was mentioned was when Tony asked if Silvio had heard from Vito, because he had called Vito twice with no response.

Did we see any clips of Vito in the preview of next weeks, or is it ambiguous at the moment whether Vito did in fact commit suicide?

</p>

[speropk]

Paulie's tatto had Mom crossed off - loyalty means nothing to him, plus it is a pretty tough move.

I think Melfi more than anyone else told him to get back to the old Tony and brought on the outburst. It's all abot ptting on a front. I was real surprised when I heard what she said.

</p>

[Rich in NJ]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Did we see whether Vito committed suicide, or was it just very strongly implied?<hr></blockquote>

The latter. The last mention of him was that no one had seen him in a few days.

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

If Vito had commited suicide his body would have been found after a couple days, so I assume he's out there somewhere.

</p>

[speropk]

Spoilers give more info on Vito's whereabouts, check them out if you want.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=speropk>speropk</A> at: 4/9/06 9:30 pm

[jayneezy]

Yea i think Vito is lamming it right now.....it seemed like he would kill himself if Sil said something different....but i don't know what would make him think Sil would let him know they know he is a homo on the phone......He would do the opposite to make him comfortable and easier to get too....

</p>

[billymac]

DGC: not sure about Vito's fate yet. But he has to be aware of how fast news like that will spread on the mob grapevine. Remember how fast the false story about Tony sleeping with Adriana was spread and was distorted by the "goomba gossip machine"!

So, if he hasn't used the gun to kill himself yet, he is certainly "hole-ing up" (forgive the bad pun) and clinging to the gun for his own protection should anyone try to make a move on him (another bad pun).







</p>

[chicoxl]

I don't know why Vito didn't take the offensive and call Tony right after he saw those two guys and tell him that he was driving past the gay bar and saw those two guys coming out. Then, when they said "no, we saw YOU in there," it would seem like sour grapes.

Vito effed himself by lamming it. He's a goner.

</p>

[jayneezy]

i think he just knew he was screwed..........plus i don't think we know if those guys are from ny or nj....so maybe they are connected to someone Vito knows he can't get over on.......i dunno thats just a wild thought

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jayneezy>jayneezy</A> at: 4/9/06 9:35 pm

[haironmelfistwat]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Wow, $450,000 for a wedding. I wonder if that includes the security. <hr></blockquote>

That looked like a $50,000 reception. I guess $400,000 was the cost of Ginny Sack's meal.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

</p>

[Wissyagain]

Actually the story is Jesus cried out at 3 o'clock in the afternoon "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Then he drew his last breath and died and he rose again on the 3rd day which was a Sunday....aka Easter Sunday....but not at 3 o'clock on that Sunday because the story I remember is that it was early in the morning when they noticed the huge stone was pushed away from his burial place.


My Catholic School education comes in pretty handy for this show.
.................................................. ................................



</p>

[Wissyagain]

I like how Paulie was being shook down by the female US Marshall and questioned because he had a vial of cologne on him. LOL! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

</p>

[The Original G Man]

Does anyone else think Vito is now high risk to turn rat? It might be his only out. Think of the implications of that ... especially after giving Carmella that envelope full of cash.

I like that they now have a number of different plotlines converging ... Johnny Sack recruting the Sopranos to whack Rusty, Phil turning on Johnny (and maybe moving to ally himself with Rusty?), Tony's hand being forced with regard to the Vito situation (who is Phils cousin). How great would it be if Phil (who no doubt has numerous prison connections) has Johnny Sack taken out, while the Sopranos simultaneiously have Rusty whacked? I think the odds of a mob war are greatly escalated after last night.

</p>

[billymac]

Moved From Another Thread

Wissyagain

Associate
Posts: 121
Posted: 4/9/06 11:41 pm
Did this episode have a gay/ weakness theme?
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Tony admiring the new bodyguards body.

Paulie and his cologne vial.

Vito - Villiage People outfit, self explanatory.

Johnny Sac - Crying like a baby.




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Mr Gebowitz

Civilian
Posts: 38
Posted: 4/9/06 11:47 pm
Re: Did this episode have a gay/ weakness theme?
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what does being gay have to do with being weak?


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Wissyagain

Associate
Posts: 122
Posted: 4/9/06 11:53 pm
Re: Did this episode have a gay/ weakness theme?
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Stereotypically.

gay or weakness? Some would say showing weakness is gay-like too.

Ask anyone in Tonys crew that question.....

Edited by: Wissyagain at: 4/9/06 11:54 pm




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billymac 72261>billymac72261</A> http://www.planet-familyguy.com/downloads/wallpapers/rupert/1stewie1024x768.jpg at: 4/10/06 5:52 am

[billymac]

Moved from another thread

KickinAssInBostonMass

Civilian
Posts: 3
Posted: 4/10/06 3:30 am
I don;t get why
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Vito called Silvio. Hes not queer too i hope.


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Jason the Magnificent

Civilian
Posts: 19
Posted: 4/10/06 4:14 am
Re: I don;t get why
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He was calling to see if Sil had heard anything.




</p>

[billymac]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Does anyone else think Vito is now high risk to turn rat? It might be his only out.<hr></blockquote>

I had the same thought. Returning to the life and the Soprano Family is too risky for Vito. The truth may not come out now, but he can't be sure that it won't eventually come out. He's just too vulnerable if he returns.

If he declines to take his chances by returning to the family, then he has only 2 real choices....the Gene Pontecorvo route or the Witness Protection Program.

</p>

[The Original G Man]

Think of the fireworks if Vito turned rat and revealed that he was ordered to whack Jackie Jr. Ah, madonn!

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=theorigi nalgman>The Original G Man</A> at: 4/10/06 6:24 am

[artfromtex]

those guys were there making a collection. chances are people know/knew that those 2 had to go there. i don't think "turning the tables" was an option. Vito knows he's farked!

</p>

[Garth]

I enjoyed last night's episode. My thoughts on certain things...

--I thought Vito's outfit was a bit heavy-handed, but I guess it was meant to be comedic and obvious. Just didn't strike me as very funny. But I am glad that this story is coming to a head. I thought that after "Unidentified Black Males", it would be one of those stories that is never visited again except in passing. So I am interested in what happens to him. I didn't think he would commit suicide and I am glad he didn't, 2 mob suicides in 5 episodes is a bit much.

--Chris really has the best lines this season. Loved the Godfather conversation with Tony! Speaking of which Tony seems to have gone totally Godfather after the attempt on his life.

--Really wondering where the Chris's Arab friends thread is going. When the asked about the guns, it was so blatent. I immediately thought they were undercover feds. That would be kind of cool, going against the grain of what we would imagine a fed to look like. But the scene seemed to set up nothing, save for the fact that Chris is now doing business with them.

--Absolutely LOVED the last 5 minutes of the episode. I love seeing Tony back as boss and making the decisions of a Boss. We get to see Tony-Mob-Boss-Slow-Motion-Vision like we did in season five when he evaluates his friends. Very cool as a throw back to that. He picked out his body guard for a number of reasons which have already been discussed here. But I think it is because he knows the bodyguard is the strongest man, youngest, short-tempered man in the room. In addition he is not really a member of Tony's inner circle, so he knows it is no great loss beating this man senseless.

--I felt Melfi's return was forgettable. She was out of character giving such blatant advice to Tony. Is she now on that level with Tony? He used to take what she said and twist it to his own purpose, which was great. Tonight she gave him what he needed very easily. Just didn't buy it. "Glad to be of service"?!?!?!!? After she seeing what happened, I now hope the beaten body guard comes to her for therapy, so she can see what she essentially suggested.

--Up until this episode we have seen people that are trying to help Tony (save in a few instances) in his weakness. It became apparent that his associates are taking advantage of his weakness. Weakness seemed to be the theme for this episode. It wasn't apparent at first, which I thought was great. But looking back on it now, all the moments of weakness that different characters show. Tony shows a ton, but then comes back and shows incredible strength (at least physical) to his crew. I know there is a thread about weakness and it's connection to the gay theme. I think saying gay = weak is a bit much. Not a theme Chase and co. would go with. However, I do see the fact that Vito is staying in an unhappy marriage and going out in secret, instead of owning up to his own feelings is his weakness.

Ok, well I have rambled enough! Nothing profound here, just my musings.

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

Tony's weight and physical shape seems to be a weaving through the episodes.

It was an obvious theme last night, but even in the first episode, when he weighed himself on the scale and kept shedding clothes to get his weight down below the scale's upper limit. Contrast that with Vito's weight loss (though it's really hard to tell the way he waddles), and even Bobby's scene last night, energetically playing basketball and even dunking, then noting he's down to 265.

In contrast, Tony DID seem slightly lighter last night compared with Ep 1 when he seemed so bloated, but as he noted last night, in the hospital he lost muscle mass, not fat. I keep waiting for Tony to make a concerted effort to shape up. Or does he fall under the same category as Ginny, who can't even lose the last 8 pounds she needs to fit in the dress for the wedding?

</p>

[exGloucester]

----------------------------------
So Although Tony Sirico is in his 60s I believe, I think Pauile is supposed to be in his mid 50s or so? Anyways, Its possible for Rusty to be his father being that he is 20 years older than him - or something like that.
----------------------------------

Paulie was a WWII baby, he'd be in his early sixties.

Others....

I am surprised Phil was so quick to call Johnny Sac a pussy for crying after the wedding. Was that scene planned by Johnny to see who wants most to move against him?

They need to give AJ something to do other than be an unreasonable idiot.








"Pain is the cleanser!" - Ned Flanders </p>

[bobC]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>----------------------------------
So Although Tony Sirico is in his 60s I believe, I think Pauile is supposed to be in his mid 50s or so? Anyways, Its possible for Rusty to be his father being that he is 20 years older than him - or something like that.
----------------------------------

Paulie was a WWII baby, he'd be in his early sixties.<hr></blockquote>

Do we know anything about Rusty's family?

Perhaps Rusty's father (Russ?) is also Paulie's father. Paulie and Rusty would then be half brothers.

They could have used any name for that of Paulie's father; but they obviously chose the name "Russ" for a reason.

Just a thought.

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bcorsale>bcorsale</A> at: 4/10/06 8:47 am

[SofiaGiovanna]

Vito:

Seemed like he was acting out more and more and more....more and more boldly. Dropping comments about homosexuals with the crew, caressing Finn's arm in the corridor, finally this club thing. Maybe he figured he'd be safe in the world of alternative lifestyles but I still say deep down, he probably wanted to come clean....like a suicide by cop.

Having said that, one of the HBO previews said that Tony would consider a reprieve for one of his top earners...which is what Vito is, but that could also refer to Paulie, who negated a promise Tony made when he kneecapped Jason Barone.

I'm just wondering how the reprisal for Vito's lack of manliness is gonna play out....especially with Phil. I mean, Johnny breaks down at his daughter's wedding, and they're ready to hang him....how about a closeted gay guy with a leather fetish?

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

YoLaJimbo --

I think that was a bit of wishful thinking on Bobby Baccala's part...the guy is about 6'3 or 6'4, there's no way he weighs 265 with that kind of stomach.

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

Darngoodcoffee: Good point, and I'm a terrible estimator of weight (and age, both of which I've learned to keep my mouth shut about <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> .)

Even so, the slo-mo scene of Bobby dunking the basketball was a marked contrast to the way his character has been portrayed before. I realize that was in the context of Tony's sizing up who to reassert his alpha-maleness with, but of the three most overweight/out-of-shape characters (Tony, Vito and Bobby, not counting Ginny). it seemed something is being telegraphed from episode 1 about Tony's inability to control his girth. I was actually so taken aback with the first episode in how heavy Tony had become I wondered if it was written into the show for some reason, and if a major weight loss is in the cards.

Of course, I have no idea what that might mean, if anything. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

</p>

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

Chase has stated in seasons past that it's important for Tony to be "heavy", as it plays into his compulsive gorge fests (among other reasons). Gandolfini commented in his Actors Studio appearance last year that HE thinks it's important for Tony to be fat because it affects his whole carriage, posture, and feeling about himself.

That said, there was a Gandolfini blurb in the news just before season 6 aired to the effect that he'd had to gain some weight for a movie role ("All the King's Men", I presume) and just left it on for the Sopranos. I don't think he was asked to gain even more, and, for Gandolfini's sake, I hope not, as carrying that much weight for the length of time he's going to be in this role can't be doing much for his health.

</p>

[Garth]

I remember reading somewhere that Gandolfini put on the weight for some other project he was working on. Then when it was time to start up Sopranos again, the Chase and co. decided it would be a good idea to just keep him that weight. I agree. His extra (extra) weight shows really how lucky he has been in the 2 years since we last saw him. A great parallel to his lifestyle of excess.

</p>

[DarngoodCoffee]

That's about as quality a simulpost as a discussion board can handle, good work FOMW and garthman

</p>

[Sheila 1986]

I thought the "fight" between Tony and his bodyguard was staged. I figured that was why he turned his ring around. I also think that kid could have beat the crap out of him, no way Tony kicks his butt. That kid was nothing but muscle and Tony is still not 100% (as shown by the constant puking afterward).

</p>

[jayduck]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>--I felt Melfi's return was forgettable. She was out of character giving such blatant advice to Tony. Is she now on that level with Tony? He used to take what she said and twist it to his own purpose, which was great. Tonight she gave him what he needed very easily. Just didn't buy it. "Glad to be of service"?!?!?!!? After she seeing what happened, I now hope the beaten body guard comes to her for therapy, so she can see what she essentially suggested.<hr></blockquote>

It was different, no doubt. I'm not sure it was totally out of character though.

She was genuinely happy to see Tony well again. Don't forget, they've played up that relationship over the season's too. Melfi is disgusted by Tony and yet has a bit of a crush on him as well. Particularly, its his strength that she likes. Remember, she toyed with the idea of having him "whack" her rapist.

Melfi gave Tony a warm, friendly smile and was not speaking as calculated as she usually does. I think she kind of lost herself for a moment, but I don't think it was out of line with her character.

</p>

[John Sacrimoni]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I thought the "fight" between Tony and his bodyguard was staged.<hr></blockquote>

Why would he be sizing up the other guys if the fight was staged, though?

Although they have their very stupid moments, the crew isn't so dumb as to not realize that Vin Diesel Driver could fight back and hurt a weakened Tony [dude may have been caught off-guard, but a few punches in the gut would have tossed away that disadvantage]. Tony knows that. It was about showing who is the boss - not that VDD couldn't fight him, but that he wouldn't. "I'm the boss. I could do this to him and his ass will put up with it because I'm the boss. And that goes for the rest of you."

ETA: What a sad group of guys he has, by the way. That probably depressed him even more.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnsacr imoni>John Sacrimoni</A> http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/PJPacino/TinyChacon.jpg at: 4/10/06 10:51 am

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

<span style="color:blue;font-size:medium;">Moved from another thread:</span>

Duke of Mantua


Civilian
Posts: 9
Posted: 4/10/06 9:44 am
Meadow and Finn's Wedding
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Is it me or does it look like Meadow and Finn are feeling pressure or having doubts about their wedding? I am judging this from their reactions when someone brings up their wedding or grandchildren.


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SofiaGiovanna

Civilian
Posts: 32
Posted: 4/10/06 10:35 am
Re: Meadow and Finn's Wedding
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It's not you, Duke....I think that their discomfort, while together and in Meadow's case, when she's alone with Mom and Dad, is real.

I never felt sparks between Meadow and Finn...no chemistry. He came off more as a good friend to her than a lover/husband. I can't see her marrying someone with no earthiness. But hey, what do I know?




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonmel fiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/10/06 10:48 am

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

garthman and jayduck, the last Melfi scene was a bit perplexing to me as well. Sometimes she seems incredibly naive about the effect she may be having on him while most times she seems much more savvy. She certainly had no problem telling him she wasn't treating him to make him a better mob boss in season 2 and flat out asked him what his objectives in therapy were. She had no problem reading between the lines in Boca where she reminded him she'd have the obligation of calling the police if he were implying a plan to violently deal with the soccer coach. She knew if she spilled her guts about the rape in a moment of weakness that, without even ASKING him (and possibly even if forbidding it), her rapist would be dead.

Yet in season 5, she counsels him in a moment of frustration to "own his feelings" of shame and guilt in whatever course of action he was considering with his cousin, this AFTER Tony had already told her that his cousin had gotten himself into deep trouble and that he couldn't get into details about it, which makes clear that it involved serious crime. To basically chastise him for purporting to "care about his cousin", discounting what I STILL feel were very genuine feelings for Tony B that went beyond guilt and shame, seemed just very negligent on Melfi's part.

As jayduck said, the misstep in 6.05 was far more light-spirited and non-chalant and may indeed have been totally a result of Melfi getting carried away with her warm feelings for Tony now that he's back in her life and recovered from near death. But I agree that it was unusually naive on her part.

If she's going to keep dispensing advice to Tony regarding things that are patently about his "business" (rather than personal) life and relationships, then something needs to open her eyes again as to what that business really entails, like the time Tony confessed with a smile that Furio was beating the crap out of a pimp and shooting his kneecap when Tony had been talking to her during their last phone conversation. If she wants to play consigliere to a mob boss, she at least ought to have all the facts first.

</p>

[peeayebee]

FOMW, I appreciate your POV of the Melfi scene, because that bothered me as well. I thought, "Why the heck would she tell him THAT?" I'm looking forward to rewatching.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Seemed like [Vito] was acting out more and more and more....more and more boldly. Dropping comments about homosexuals with the crew, caressing Finn's arm in the corridor, finally this club thing. Maybe he figured he'd be safe in the world of alternative lifestyles but I still say deep down, he probably wanted to come clean....like a suicide by cop.<hr></blockquote>
The last few eps I've seen Vito as being bold because of his feeling that he should move up, that he's entitled. I esp saw this when he caressed Finn's arm -- He saw the possibility/probability that Tony wouldn't survive, and that HE would move up. He became embolded by his growing belief that he was due for a promotion.

My guess is that whenever he and his wife go to a wedding, he gets depressed about being in the closet, so he goes to a gay bar to reaffirm his true feelings.

And back to the ep as a whole -- I loved it.

- Good observation someone had about this being an ep about weakness.

- I hated how the feds couldn't wait to allow Johnny to watch his daughter drive off. That was horrible. In no way do I see Johnny's crying as calculated. He genuinely loves his daughter and wanted the day to be perfect. His tears were real.

- It was funny how the two feds were wearing exactly the same thing -- same suit, same tie. Dorks.

- Could not stand Phil being critical of Johnny's crying, though I understand, in a way. But when macho grandstanding cannot even allow a man to cry at his own daughter's wedding, I have zero sympathy for that code. I applauded Tony for defending Johnny.

- I guess lots of viewers enjoyed seeing Tony get back to his old self, but I was very disappointed (in the character, not in the show). I admired how he was calm, getting his bodyguard to back down with the road rage, being sweet with Meadow -- tears came to my eyes when he was talking to her in the kitchen about grandchildren -- being so vulnerable at the checkpoint into the church.

- And so, as I said, it was deeply disappointing when he provoked and assaulted the bodyguard. I was surprised that he won the fight, but I figured the guy tried to hold back.

- For a second I thought Junior was faking -- And I had been positive his dementia was for real! -- but now I'm back to being pretty certain he's sick. That look on his face when he was alone in that room. Pathetic.

</p>

[garycollin]

i'm not completely sure about this, but the motel that vito checked into looked an awful lot like the motel that tony and meadow stayed at in "college". i don't have tivo so i can't look back and verify it, but if it's true i think it's neat of chase to add a little nod to one of the best episodes of the series. or maybe it was just more convenient to shoot there, who knows.

</p>

[speropk]

In addiiton to his girth, I've also noticed Tony's heavy breathing. I wonder, is this Gandolfini's real weight or do they have costumes to make his girth look bigger?

</p>

[EdaMaria]

I decided to channel my inexplicable annoyance at the "Jimmy Brown'' song in a constructive way and, as a result, made some interesting discoveries.

The song apparently is called the "Three Bells" (bells!)

A bell for birth, a bell for marriage, a bell for death...

so now we've heard the first two parts, all that's left is death and wishes for salvation ....

There's a village hidden deep in the valley
Among the pine trees half forlorn
And there on a sunny morning
Little Jimmy Brown was born
So his parents brought him to the chapel
When he was only one day old
And the priest blessed the little fellow
Welcomed him to the fold

All the chapel bells were ringing in the little valley town
And the song that they were singing was for baby Jimmy Brown
And the little congregation prayed for guidance from above
“Lead us not into temptation, bless this hour of meditation
Guide him with eternal love”

There's a village hidden deep in the valley
Beneath the mountains high above
And there, twenty years thereafter
Jimmy Brown was to meet his love
Many friends were gathered in the chapel
And many tears of joy were shed
In June on a Sunday morning
When Jimmy and his bride were wed

All the chapel bells were ringing, 'twas a great day in his life
'cause the song that they were singing was for Jimmy and his wife
And the little congregation prayed for guidance from above
“Lead us not into temptation, bless, oh Lord this celebration
May their lives be filled with love”

From the village hidden deep in the valley
One rainy morning dark and grey
A soul winged its way to Heaven
Jimmy Brown had passed away
Silent people gathered in the chapel
To say farewell to their old friend
Whose life had been like a flower
Budding, blooming till the end

Just a lonely bell was ringing in the little valley town
'twas farewell that it was singing to our good old Jimmy Brown
And the little congregation prayed for guidance from above
“Lead us not into temptation, may his soul find the salvation
Of Thy great eternal love”

</p>

[Garth]

I have no problem with the character's range of feelings. Because that has always been the most interesting thing for Melfi, imo. Sometimes she is so flirtatious with him, other times she is a disciplinarian, mother-figure. I just thought it was a bit too far in one direction. But considering she hasn't seen him for a while and feared for his life, it seems like some of those barriers have been broken down. Still, just seemed a bit too naive and whimsical even considering Melfi's range of responses to Tony's business.

</p>

[Garth]

Very interesting EdaMaria, I actually kind of like the song. Very erie (sp?) I just hope they don't over-do it with this song. If it were a spread out a bit during the season I would be much happier. But one episode after another...? It is a bit much. So I hope they don't do it again next episode or whatever. But I will withhold my judgement.

</p>

[WitnessProtection]

Great, great episode...lots of plots moving forward in a much quicker way than we're used to in regards to this show...at least I think so. My absolute favorite part of this episode was the scene with everyone entering the church, I really enjoyed how they showed the 2 bosses as rather sad & pathetic men...with Johnny Sac arriving with his Federal escort and Tony falling over while trying to take of his shoes. Both of these men have hit rock bottom, and I doubt it's possible for either of them to appear more pathetic than what we saw in this episode.

</p>

[YoLaJimbo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>billymac72261 said: Ominous that Vito called Silvio at 3:00? <hr></blockquote>


On vacation this week and watching Season 5 DVD again - in episode 2, when Tony Soprano calls Tony B. late at night (bored, drunk, guilty for having chastised Tony B a few days before for mocking his weight, etc). Tony B. notes ... "it's like 3 in the morning."

(And, eh, sorry if this was duly noted by someone, like, 2 years ago.)

</p>

[Stealth NYY]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If she's going to keep dispensing advice to Tony regarding things that are patently about his "business" (rather than personal) life and relationships, then something needs to open her eyes again as to what that business really entails,<hr></blockquote>

After years of therapy, and Tony coming back to Melfi after being shot by his own uncle (who wanted him dead once before) I don't think any psychiatrist with half a brain would need to be reminded about what Tony does. If she does then she needs to don an engineer's cap and play trains with Bobby.

It's looking like Melfi in many ways is enabling Tony's slip into the abyss. Perhaps in the end we're going to get Chase's view that not only is materialism and excess a problem with the Sopranos (and American culture at large) but also modern psychiatry which very often caters to the self indulgent.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stealthn yy>Stealth NYY</A> http://hometown.aol.com/snowboon/yanks.gif at: 4/10/06 5:40 pm

[chicoxl]

Brilliant episode. Not as good as the first Finnerty episode (because, in all honesty, nothing I've ever seen was as good as that episode), but certainly one of the best the show has ever produced.

I don't think that Tony's vomiting can be taken at just face value. It was also a symbolic vomiting as well. I think Tony is a changed man who is forced to act like the same old guy in order to survive.

Don't you think that the revelations about Johnny Sac being "soft" rubbed Tony the wrong way? With so many hungry wolves as his capos, he knows that he'll be killed at the slightest sign of weakness, hence the fight.

But make no mistake - Tony is a changed man.

</p>

[Hrurusch]

how long has it been now since tony has been released, 3-5 months?we have a 6 week cut right at the beginning pointed out to us by the letters on the screen.'finny' is surrounded by lions and is trying to act 'normally'.he and carmella didnt have sex yet i guess?not that i would care, but maybe we are trying to be told something by not seeing a kiss in bed or something like that.

</p>

[kev107]

Does anyone think that Johnny Sac could be trying to implicate Tony with the request to have Rusty whacked. I find it very strange that he NEEDS T to do this. Implicate how? I'm not too sure. Maybe he'll flip and testify against Tony? Maybe he's trying to turn the other half of the Lupretazzi family (Carmine Jr etc.) against Tony? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

</p>

[chicoxl]

Yes, this Rusty situation is very fishy. Why Tony agreed is beyond me. This is the second time that Johnny Sac has tried to play Tony. T was smart enough to get out the first time, but we'll see about now...

</p>

[JohnnyTwoTimes]

I have to agree with the sentiment about the feds not being able to wait until Johnny's daughter was gone. They went way over the line. None of their actions were necessary. A few minutes later and they could have all left without incident.

All of their actions, the siren when they arrived, Johnny showing up in handcuffs and taking him away when his daughter was about to leave, were all planned to humiliate Johnny.

It's hard to have sympathy for the "good" guys when they pull things like that.

I'd also agree that it was great to see Tony defending Johnny. But I think he did because he could easily see himself doing the same thing (crying that is. He did cry over the horse and ducks.)

</p>

[bada bing crosby]

I think tony was always a tougher guy than jonny sack and i dont think he would cry infront of EVERYONE like that, he knows everything is appearances. Jonny sack has always been a pussy ass snake if you ask me.

</p>

[Katie Hope]

Whose life had been like a flower
Budding, blooming till the end

Does anyone think Meadow dies?

I have no idea myself...but they keep mentioning a wedding, grandchildren, her being a doctor or lawyer...i dunno..that's probably out there

</p>

[moth78]

The bald guy is named Dante Greco.

Eddie Pietro is the guy who's always with Rusty... was in the scenes with him and Little Carmine last season.

Anthony Infante is Ginny Sack's optometrist brother-in-law.

</p>

[bobC]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>- Could not stand Phil being critical of Johnny's crying, though I understand, in a way. But when macho grandstanding cannot even allow a man to cry at his own daughter's wedding, I have zero sympathy for that code. I applauded Tony for defending Johnny.<hr></blockquote>

I think this action by Phil will eventually get back to Johnny Sac and it could be curtains for Phil. There is no way he should have voiced his opinion of his boss in public. A very stupid move on his part. Even the civilian couple stopped to make a remark!

The next favor Johnny asks of Tony could be to have Phil whacked.

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

[haironmelfistwat]

I hate to date myself, but I remember when that song was first a hit (I was a kid). That song was sung by Jim Ed Brown (sound country?) and his brothers and sisters--they called themselves the Browns, duh. It was an early "crossover" hit from country to the pop charts. All I ever thought about when I heard it was "I'm glad I was born in the city and not out in the country, because if that kind of song described me or people I knew, I might just cut my own throat." I thought it sucked then, and here, 45 years later, it still sucks real bad. I know that doesn't add much to the philosophical/metaphorical discussion of the use of that song, but the song still blows bears... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x">

</p>

[exGloucester]

------------------------
Does anyone think Meadow dies?
------------------------

I've long thought that either Meadow dies, or she runs the family.




"Pain is the cleanser!" - Ned Flanders </p>

[Hrurusch]

if it was a long term show (10+ more years) i could see meadow ending up the top mafia lawyer of the town.

did we ever find out what was up with all the clocks in the last 2 episodes?
tonys vomiting reminds a bit of alex in clockwork orange, where the guy gets changed and has then to vomit when he thinks of crime and violence(there arent much significant clocks in that movie though).

</p>

[TommySoprano]

chicoxl I agree with your assessment of the Rusty situation being fishy. I think Tony knows it too, and that is why he is going to farm out the hit to someone in Italy. Tony maybe still be recovering physically, but I see his mobster mentality is still as sharp as ever. He knows that this hit will cause problems.

</p>

[bobC]

HOMT:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I hate to date myself, but I remember when that song was first a hit (I was a kid). That song was sung by Jim Ed Brown (sound country?) and his brothers and sisters--they called themselves the Browns, duh. It was an early "crossover" hit from country to the pop charts. All I ever thought about when I heard it was "I'm glad I was born in the city and not out in the country, because if that kind of song described me or people I knew, I might just cut my own throat." I thought it sucked then, and here, 45 years later, it still sucks real bad. I know that doesn't add much to the philosophical/metaphorical discussion of the use of that song, but the song still blows bears... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x"> <hr></blockquote>

I started a "Three Bells" thread after Episode 6.04. Here's the link:
Three Bells (http://p098.ezboard.com/fthechaseloungefrm24.showMessage?topicID=24.topic)

--
BobbyBuz
"Everything happens for a reason"</p>

[Alas1119]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Does anyone think Meadow dies?<hr></blockquote>

I said to my husband late Sunday night that I think Meadow is not going to be alive by the series end. I just have that feeling...

Also, I think Phil is getting too big for his britches. Even if he THOUGHT that Johnny's crying was weak, he should not have vocalized it to such a big crowd. That was a stupid move and it may come back to bite him in the ass.

Christopher was stupid too for agreeing with Phil and Tony didn't appreciate it too much. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">



</p>

[elaineb1]

I would guess that Tony sorta apologizes to him...hey, Tony can you use some fresh new beef around. He was smart enough to know there was no way he fight back against Tony in that situation, he took his lumps like a man. Actually, rather minor, compared to what he did to Georgie the bartender and bouncer at the Bing.

And speaking of bouncers, where is Tony Siragosi's character?

Can anyone tell me why the Baccilari's weren't invited to the wedding?

And what the hell has happened to the Bucco's? Artie was used a lot last year, so far all we have seen him do is bring Carm a dish at the hospital. Has the lovely Charmane Bucco even been seen this year?

</p>

[Duke of Mantua]

Meadow is going to be a lawyer judging from this episode

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dukeofma ntua>Duke of Mantua</A> at: 4/11/06 10:27 pm

[Pork Store]

Great posts and ideas here my fellow board members!

I'm late to the party, but wanted to add that the Sacrimonis smokeing as a family was hilarious to me.

Wow!!! Another great episode. Could this season get any better?





</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p098.ezboard.com/bthechaselounge.showUserPublicProfile?gid=porkstor e>Pork Store</A> at: 4/11/06 11:25 pm

[Corrado Junior Soprano]

A lotta people have posted about the J Sak crying thing, and I think I disagree...
Actually I felt the same way at first, but upon second viewing, I changed my mind. Notice how J Sak cries at the end of the wedding, as they're taking him away, and not any other time? I'm inclined to agree with Phil's comment that If they can break him down and make cry, what else can they make him do? I saw that he was crying because he would now have to go back to jail, probably never to see light again. We all know how much he loves Ginny, how he clearly loved his daughter this episode. On top of all this, he never really got to the top, and bam! he gets busted. It was a cry of despair at his life now... which makes him more susceptible to flipping. Phil of all people has the right to comment.. he spent 20 years in the can and hit the ground running when he came out. He must know what it's like in there... And now look at Johnny's circumstance... Never got to be boss and wanted it badly, Will probably not have a happy ending - he's too old for anything to work out by now, can't be with his loving family...

The only question in my mind is - what could the damage be? He's possibly the highest ranking figure in OC in the whole country. A boss of bosses in NY. So there's no incentive the feds can give him for ratting - they prolly won't offer him witness protection, since he's the main guy they want. Unless they're willing to let him walk in exchange for taking out all the other major bosses. Woah<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> actually that's prolly worth it for the feds - imagine - getting 5-6 other Don's in exchange for one.

As for him being old skool and all that - I think J Sak is one of the most canniving, self serving characters on the show, leaps and bounds above even the most selfish of other characters...
J Sak is always looking out for only one thing - J Sak <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

</p>

[JohnnyTwoTimes]

Vito - he's gonna flip. He knows he has no options left. Those guys will never keep their mouth shut about seeing Vito in a gay bar. And Vito knows that. He calls Sil to see if anyone has already talked but he knows it's only a matter of time.

And then they don't hear from Vito for a couple of days at the end? He's gonna flip for sure. There's no other choice for him.

</p>