Tony insulting Grasso

[richjcrouch]

When the FBI are searching the house, and Grasso drops a bowl there is an exchange between Tony and Grasso. I believe this is once Harris mentions Grasso's name.

What does Tony do/say here? Been bugging me for a while.

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

Hopefully bada or one of our Italian-speaking posters will weigh in, but I'll venture a guess based on the gesture Tony makes when he says the words. IIRC, he puts the thumb and index finger of each hand together to form a circle or hole, and Grasso responds with something like "your ass!". I'm thinking Tony said something like, "You're taking it up the ass from these guys" (as in, he's a sucker Italian in the FBI who thinks he's actually accepted by these whitebread guys) or "I'm going to put one in your ass" or "I'll ream you a new asshole." Whatever it was, it was pretty hostile, LOL.

[richjcrouch]

I thought that was the gesture made, but a friend claimed he touched his nose, and made the circular/diamond shape only when he see's Grasso in the police van prior to hearing the Green Grove recordings.

I thought the gesture there was the same as the one in the kitchen.

Need to rewatch the episode, really. I intended to do so last night, but the call of From Where to Eternity was too great!

[bloodshot]

Literal translation is that "So, you are making an ass of yourself" Judging by his hand gesture he considers it a big ass.

[richjcrouch]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[richjcrouch]

Leading on from this, what are some of the other insults etymologies?

I know Va'fa Napoli means 'Go to Hell' and literally 'Go to Napoli'. Furio explains the North/South divide and how the South is considered poor by the North, so using Napoli as an isnult kind of adds to that.

Why the flick from the chin, though?

What does the bending of the nose mean?

We also find out that Buchiach means 'cunt' in D-Girl, it's interesting to see it used throughout the show too, notably Sil calls Tracey this in University.

Any others?

[bloodshot]

Growing up Italian in my house there was one word you never ever used; [I]Fachean. It was the one thing that would automatically get you 2 fingers to the back of the head. The funny thing is though no one can really tell you what it means. Of course your parents won't. But i've approached crusty old bartenders who cringed when i asked and shook their heads, as well as, various friends and relatives up on Federal Hill (Italian section of RI with heavy mob history) and never got the same answer twice. Furio screams it a couple of times in the show (when he slips on eggs in the farmers marker). I think it pops up once or twice through out the series. As a side note, one of Capones guys screams it as he's being shot by Kevin Costner in the cabin at the border in The Untouchables.

[richjcrouch]

Outstanding spot!

When you say growing up Italian, do you mean actually Italian, or American Italian?

The reason I ask is that one of the things I notice about the Sopranos is that often the more serious insults are given out in Italian, even though many of the people in question have never been to Italy.

Is that true to life?

[bloodshot]

American Italian. Pretty much spot on to setting of the Sopranos. Only difference being the stateside location. While they are set in NJ, I grew up and still live in Rhode Island. Several of the writers came from the same area of Federal Hill (section in RI capital of Providence). Several scenes and even one road trip from the show were based on the heavy Italian/mob influence the littlest state has.

The swearing in italian is probaly the extent of most itloamericans master of the langage. Fung Gool is pretty much the all time favorite

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

I'm enjoying these tidbits of info, bloodshot.:icon_biggrin:

[bloodshot]

Thanks Fly. I'm actually in one of my No Sopranos funks so i'm enjoying the therapy of commenting.

Couple of questions Rich had that i can help with(from my perspective anyway)

Why the flick from the chin, though?

Thats a classic Italian putdown. Pretty much an animated "up yours'

What does the bending of the nose mean?

Pretty much an Italian stereotype of mobsters all have broken noses. Also may refer to the classic Roman Nose that can be big.

[badabellisima]

Say Blooshot- that scene with the old asassins with the blind sister- must have been Federal Hill, right? Everything about the setting made me think the writers picked someplace that was the quintessential example of a well-known place with a famous history that i wasn't quite aware of since i'm not from the east coast. Something about the front door.

For some reason, that scene has always really stuck in my mind. Beautifully crafted and perfectly executed- it seemed to catch an essence as if if the writer or contributor to it had been there and remembered every little detail. i still hear the blind woman speaking of the priest and serving Caravelle. Reminds me of going to old relative's houses as a kid and that sort of familiar family feeling, but a bit awkward as well since it was a step into the past.

[bloodshot]

Hi Bada, Yes they would have wanted it to have that take place on the Hill. I'm pretty sure it is Robin Green and Mitchell Burgess who wrote that episode and commented on their RI background. The house they chose was pretty spot on, although it would have been located on Broadway, which runs parallel, where all the Victorians are. Atwells was where all the shops, restuarants and apartments are. Most of the shops and great places to eat are still there, but the rest of the neighborhood has changed. The local paper just did a pretty accurate article on the changes including the guy who now owns what was once the headquarters of New England mob. Very reminisent of Little Italy just being a block or so long

http://www.projo.com/news/content/FEDERAL_HILL_10-31-09_EPFNH4C_v72.398f281.html


They did pick the perfect living room to have them meet those Atwell(s) Ave boys though. The high ceilings and dusty old feel to theplace brought back memories

[richjcrouch]

I'm enjoying these tidbits of info, bloodshot.:icon_biggrin:

Me too.

As much as I love the show, I have no basis at all to know if it is 'true to life' or complete fantasy.

[badabellisima]

Bloodshot: Thanks for that link about Federal Hill and the historical changes towards more diversity-and less italian presence. The comments following the article were priceless. I just love to read this sort of thing, especially as it relates to Sopranos scenes. Reminds me of the changes around Satriale's neighborhood and the juice bar. Sad, but true, state of affairs for alot of the old neighborhoods in this country.

The photo in the article says a lot- not so many italians attending Mass there now. imo, sounds like the italians abandoned their faith roots to some extent, and there went the culture out the window. Its a classic story being repeated all over this country and around the world.

imo, its a mistake if they paint over the mural of the Roman acquaduct.

[bloodshot]

Hey Bada, so glad you took the time to read the article. I reread it again and realized how approprate it was to have it as part of this forum. From all our discussions, as well as, various interviews i've read with Chase and of course the reference to Atwells Ave , the article certainly did give a real life perspective to several topics brought up on the show. I miss the old neighborhood, but it's the cycle of life in America at this point.

[jouster]

I know this is sort of an ancient thread, and while I can't shed any light on what Tony says, I can say that the gesture he makes is the crude/street gesture for a vagina, or 'pussy,' if I'm not mistaken. Again, I have no idea what Tony says, but I can certainly understand Grasso's offense at the gesture.

[bloodshot]

Grasso, ti faccio un culo cosi.

"i'm hear to tell you your an asshole". Culo is buttocks-stick a cosi after it and you have the italian slang for asshole. And as i mentioned in an earlier post, judging by the size of Tony's hand jesture, your a big one Grasso. And it's just dawning on me as i typed his name, thats actually what he may be making fun of

[elfomarcio]

being Italian born and raise i can tell u: "ti faccio un culo così" means literally "i'll make you an ass this big" (referred to the gesture done with the hands, representing the "wideness" of the ass"), the meaning is more or less "i'll kick your ass (untill it swallows)" (the expression is purely insulting and has no sexual undertext). as far as concern the gesture: a similar one is used to represent a vagina, but in this case thumbs and indexes are touching; in this case is usually used when someone wants to refer at a woman sexually, anyway is not isulting "per se", the gesture used by Tony instead is used almost only in this context (with the "ti faccio un culo così" phrase), and when used alone, without saying nothing, usually means that same phrase, and is commonly intended as a phisycal threat to somebody.
a lot of other italian expression if literally translated can have a very different meaning in english, for example to say that a girl is very hot we use the word "figa" like in "michelle rodriguez è una gran figa" meaning "michelle rodriguez is smoking hot", but literally "michelle rodriguez is a big cunt" (the word "figa" meaning "cunt" or "pussy", anyway a slang for vagina).
i hope i've helped

to bloodshoot:
così can be a conjunction or an adverb meaning "so" "as" "thus" "so as" etc.. the italian word for Asshole is usually "stronzo" (wich is literally "turd"). the literal translation of "ass hole" wich is "buco di culo" is usually used to refer at a person incredibly lucky. "Che buco di culo!" (literally "what an ass hole") is used to say "what a lucky strike!") i know it sounds really strange, but i swear that's it.