Mad Men Season 3

[jouster]

Regarding the premiere, that was... underwhelming. I was not a fan of the odd fantasy Don had of his own birth (which told us what we already knew), and the payoff of sorts to Sal's homosexual tryst was also unsatisfying. I'm unsure at this point if Matthew Weiner is attempting a Sopranos-style anticlimax with that (Don essentially telling Sal he won't tell, but to watch himself), or if this information will come into play later in the season, but, for me, it didn't work. I also thought the episode really failed to generate any excitement for the new season - last season had a weak premiere as well, if I remember it right, but I feel like it already had more balls in the air and more potential than anything shown here. Not awful, but this might've been my least favorite episode of the show so far. What did you guys think?

[badabellisima]

Couldn't agree with you more! The minute it started going into the Sal with the bellboy scene, i just lost it. i groaned--- OMG, another Brokeback Vito detour!!

i would have preferred it if they thought they had to go this route, then how about developing that relationship Sal had with the client from a previous season, where they actually had chemistry and some sort of genuine affection developing over their dinner date--, gay or not isn't the point. The bellboy scene had just a completely gratuitous feeling to it, to me.

And don't get me started on the stereotypical fling with a stewardess bit. Strange awkward dialogue at their dinner. Were people that fake and un-intellectual back then? (Not in our household, although i was just a babe of course!). Or maybe the fact that Weiner is young and imagining the sixties not so much from his own experience, but rather from what he fantasized it was. - Well- maybe that factor is really starting to show. Sure, the sets are perfect. But something was missing. Imo, this episode had to be the worst one ever.

The office firings had more a ring of truth to it, more believable. Those scenes were spot on to me,and i want to know more about what is happening to the characters. Its weird, i hated Pete at first in the first season. Then i came to feel a bit sorry for him and actually started to like him. Now after his tantrum with Ken, i'm back to disliking him intensley. At least for now! And i never did like his wife and her pretentious hats. Ew.

And what were the strange references to Sterling and Hong Kong? Wasn't quite following that.

And you are so right about the strange flashback to his birth- didn't have the effective use that flashbacks carried back in the Sopranos heyday. ANd that bit about the origin of Dick's name- just so cheesy and not believable at all. No one is that mean and cruel to name a child in that manner- again- seemed a bit gratuitous and over done.

There were some good moments to be sure, but overall, incredibly disappointing, and after this painful long wait for Season 3, i'm afraid they will have really lost their audience- especially newcomers. They needed a strong start, and this was a bellyflop.

However- the regular characters are still amazing and compelling, and of course i can hardly wait until next week, and i am about to go watch it again On Demand!! (so much for the thumbs down!) :icon_mrgreen:

p.s. here's an okay review: http://bluemoviereviews.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/review-mad-men-season-3-premiere/

[jouster]

Firstly, it looks like you're wrong - I just read that last night's episode had their largest audience ever. Hopefully they'll get the quality back up to par with so many more eyes are on them, or you're right, I fear they will lose their audience.

The references to Sterling in foreign lands, if I understood right, were that he was on his honeymoon in the break between seasons. The stoli and the cigars were things he picked up on his trip.

I sort of enjoyed the Ken and Pete rivalry. Speaking of what was discussed in the other thread, their conversation in the elevator reminded me of The Sopranos. They way they talked around each other, both under the impression they had gotten the job over the other and trying to soothe the other about it without directly stating anything, reminded me of some of the classic exchanges on our favorite show. One of the better scenes in the episode, although I'm not particularly looking forward to that aspect going forward (hopefully it won't be a huge issue in future episodes).

[AJColossal]

I thought the premiere was up to typical Mad Men quality. And as far as plot development goes on the show, I thought it was a little more lively than usual. The flashback at the beginning was an interesting choice. I dunno...good stuff I thought all around.

The problem I'm having with Mad Men is that it seems capable of going so far as a drama. And maybe this is the Sopranos fan in me, but I'm waiting for the show to just blow me away. I just don't know if it's really capable of doing that.

It's a very well-written, stylish show featuring characters that do/say clever and interesting things, and...what am I missing?

[Garth]

I thought it was pretty standard as well. It didn't blow my mind. But, in order to be succinct:

What I liked:
*The dream sequence at the beginning. It wasn't as masterfully done as Sopranos, but it was handled well. Especially the panning of shots as Don saw his past. As for it being overly harsh. First, this wasn't quite a flashback it was what Don thought or was told by others as to his history. And what he thought or was told (by his neglectful "parents") might purposefully be hurtful. Don has a decent amount of self-resentment, this had to spark somewhere...otherwise we are just chasing the ghost of Don Draper.

*Don's interactions with the flight attendant. On the surface this tryst is meant to seem routine. But it is a lead-up to the line that Don mentions "I keep going to a lot of places and ending up somewhere I've already been." Don baptises himself at the end of last season in the ocean of California. Apparently only to return to his old habits.

*The Firings. A good way to jump start things and make the audience concerned which of their favorite characters will be on the "bread line" next.

*Pete's arc. It is a perfect use of dramatic irony. Where you feel incredibly happy for Pete, but then watch his reaction and disappointment. Perhaps we can relate to that, but it struck me as baby-like. And reminded me of Christopher throwing a tantrum when he wouldn't get his way. And as much as that may sound like a criticism, it is not. In fact it pulls the viewer through a number of emotions, just as Sopranos did. One minute you love a character, the next you can't help but despise the new face they show.

*Don's (lack of) reaction to Sal on the plane. I was so glad to see Don not mentioning a thing about seeing Sal with the bellhop. Out of all the characters, Don has no room to criticize anyone for pretending to be someone they are not.

*The ending with Don in bed and telling the story. Very emotional and a great job by Jon Hamm.

Stuff I didn't care for:

The new crew...I am just never a huge fan of new cast members on my favorite shows. I enjoy the ones we already have, and quickly become annoyed with others who are stealing screen time. This, most likely, will change in the next few episodes after I get to "know" them. But for right now...not too interested.

Sal: I REALLY like Sal as a character. I just think it would be less cliche and angsty if he was a character which the audience knew without a doubt to be gay, but never was really able to act on it. I don't know, having him act and discovered seems done (like the Sopranos, which this show is already mimicking pretty heavily, Don being kicked out of the house, etc). It just would be great to see him constantly in turmoil over living a life that he doesn't want (great tv anyway, not great for him!)

That pretty much surmises my thoughts. And I can't wait to see where things go from here!

[Rike]

hey guys! just wanted to join the discussion here even though i have far less of my own analysis to throw in.

i noticed this season premiere was written by matthew weiner. that is kind of a rarity, is it not? after seeing that I definitely expected more. im a bit bored with the plight of the closeted homosexual in the 60s storyline, but it's OK for a few laughs. I can almost guarantee he gets outed this season and probably fired and gone from the show. how much longer can they drag that out?

weiner obviously loves stories about closeted men who are in impossible situations. makes me wonder how much he was involved in the vito plot (as one of you mentioned). probably a ton.

anyhow, the show still has great potential. it really gives the vibe that tragedy is just around the corner for every single character. i watch it with a certain level of horror and anxiety.

[aprilemoney]

I thought the first episode was very good.

Mad Men, like Sopranos, has so much depth and symbolism. I actually like the British takeover..I think it is a great addition to story. The office is in a "London Fog".

Its only the first episode..so I'll wait a few more episodes until I judge how this season is going. But overall..satisfied..excited and can't wait til Sunday

[badabellisima]

Hi everyone- back from a business trip, so i just caught up on last two episodes. Definitely picking up. Obviously i wasn't too crazy about the first one, but of course in retrospect its all tying in now- just setting a certain slower pace i think, for perhaps the whole season? Or maybe what i took to be lackluster was really just a slow build up to much more down the line.

And what a show last night! Don was awesome as he handled Bett's Dad problem and making it so he could live with them. Just awesome- and he totally won her heart all over again. I actually am building up more respect for him, even though he had a sort of affair and was looking like he was going down that old path like Tony kept doing in spite of his best intentions.
The Jane thing- a bit odd. And with Joanie- does anyone understand what was up with the conversation about her husband's surgery problem? Did he screw up and they had to stop discussing it? Was he not selected for the resident surgeon job or something?

Ah, whatta great show! :icon_biggrin:

[AJColossal]

I think I'm disagreeing with some of the sentiment here by thinking the show is actually losing momentum as the third season carries on.

Stop me if you think Mad Men deserves to be considered as it's own entity outside of The Sopranos but -- 1) There are just too many parallels to be drawn between the two series and 2) look where we are posting these comments ;)

With that digression out of the way, Mad Men , for my tastes, is starting to be a little too enamored with itself and it's attention to period detail and less concerned with, I don't know, plot and movement. The Sopranos would drift and meander, but I thought it was able to do that because there was such a rich history to the show that it added character development and nuance to the broader strokes of the meaty substance that was already there. Plus, you knew that the meandering would often directly lead to more gripping and dramatic storytelling. The two tones of the show worked beautifully together on The Sopranos, but that balance is off at times on Mad Men.

I think that's the word that I'm searching for -- drama. I like Mad Men. I really do. I think I just want it to move me more dramatically than it does. It does so many things so well, but it leaves me kind of empty.

[badabellisima]

i guess time will tell if its 'jumped the shark', but for now, i think i will just see where this is going- (but i definitely wondered that when i watched the first episode). Maybe the point is to pull away from so much office-centric storyline to the slower homefront. They're leading up to the birth of the baby- perhaps it will turn out to be another boy and Betts will be disappointed. Or the opposite, and she will be more satisfied in her character's role than in the past season.

btw- is that a new actor for their little boy? Doesn't at all seem like the first 2 seasons, and not nearly as much 'presence'.

Perhaps most of the audience just can't relate that well to the office plot as it wraps around advertising and the peak of the Manhatten scene- there was probably only a small minority of the country's population that was in the Draper family's circumstances, whereas most people can relate to the homelife scenarios, regardless of the occupation of the "breadwinner". Its definitley a more east-coast thing. Out here in California, the glamour at that time revolved around the aerospace industry for sure, so those episodes hit home more for me, in terms of childhood memories. Surprised they don't bring in the Barbie and Disneyland bit- maybe they will. Pretty significant out here, and a significant impact on the culture. I'll bet they'll turn Sally into a bulemic trying to achieve that 60's "Twiggy" look if the show ever gets that far into her teen years...She seems to show increasing behavior issues every episode...

[conkom]

This show is getting better and better. I just watched the sixth episode for this season and the depth in the writing and characterisation make this the best show since the Sopranos.

[Rike]

I agree that its getting better. I really have no idea where this season is going actually. I expect a few shocks!

[badabellisima]

Hi Everyone- back after a brief hiatus! :icon_biggrin:

Wow- the show is really kicking in! ANd sure enough- Barbie has arrived! ANd tossed into a hedge no less! That last episode was really great, but the topper of them all- the surprising scene in previous epi with the lawn mower- just priceless. Top guy losing his foot-- "... just after he got it in the door". Very Sopranos-like, imho. fantastic, memorable scene. i can hardly wait 'til Sunday.

[AJColossal]

Just when I thought I was comparing this show to The Sopranos too much, the last episode was a largely a detour with a trip to Italy. :icon_mrgreen:

Thought the season has picked up, but I feel I'm getting a bit more detached on an emotional level to this show as it goes on.

I'm convinced at the pace they're on that they will touch on the Kennedy assassination. That should be interesting.

[Garth]

Much like Sopranos, the pacing of this show takes a while to get going. Looking back on Sopranos season premiere's with exception of maybe the first season (since the world was introduced) and 6a, not a whole lot happens. It is mostly setting the stage, like the first act of a drama performance does, for the rising action, climax and conclusion.

So I am not sure why people here are so surprised at the slow start. I think it might just be hard to get back into the swing of having to wait weekly for episodes, and early on in the season this can get frustrating.

After the "John Deer" incident, I for one was more then happy to wait another week for that quality of episode. The season has hit its stride, and maybe it did take a bit longer to get rolling then other seasons, but it has me pretty pumped!

[mutualdream]

Great episode last night. Looks like Don is heading for a big fall.

On a Soprano-related note...When Betty finally found the contents of what was in Don's drawer, I couldn't helped but notice that, unlike Carmela, who tried so hard to find Tony's secret stash of cash, Betty couldn't have cared less about the money in drawer. She wanted to find out his secrets.

I've also read people comparing Don's new mistress, the teacher, to Gloria. Like she's going to start stalking him or something. THat plot line seems to obvious here. I actually like her character. THe look in Don's eyes when they were having pillow talk was actually very sweet and tender.

[Garth]

Great episode last night. Looks like Don is heading for a big fall.

On a Soprano-related note...When Betty finally found the contents of what was in Don's drawer, I couldn't helped but notice that, unlike Carmela, who tried so hard to find Tony's secret stash of cash, Betty couldn't have cared less about the money in drawer. She wanted to find out his secrets.

I've also read people comparing Don's new mistress, the teacher, to Gloria. Like she's going to start stalking him or something. THat plot line seems to obvious here. I actually like her character. THe look in Don's eyes when they were having pillow talk was actually very sweet and tender.

There are many Sopranos parallels. And as much as I like Mad Men, I wish it would come into its own a bit more. There are too many similarities to Sopranos for me really love it.

[AJColossal]

And, Garth, to address an earlier post you made about the slow start, when the show goes into tangential storylines with other characters (like The Sopranos) the supporting cast isn't always strong enough to pull it off, IMO.

What does everyone think of January Jones on the show? I personally think she's *OK*. As the show goes on, and the show asks her to do more, especially in relation to Jon Hamm (who is A-level), I don't really know if she's up for the task.

I know part of it must be how Weiner wants her to play it -- very subdued and repressed, but by design or not, she's not a terribly compelling actress.

Imagine how much weaker The Sopranos would have been if Edie Falco couldn't hold her own (and then some) up against James Gandolfini in the countless wonderful scenes they had together.

[Garth]

And, Garth, to address an earlier post you made about the slow start, when the show goes into tangential storylines with other characters (like The Sopranos) the supporting cast isn't always strong enough to pull it off, IMO.

What does everyone think of January Jones on the show? I personally think she's *OK*. As the show goes on, and the show asks her to do more, especially in relation to Jon Hamm (who is A-level), I don't really know if she's up for the task.

I know part of it must be how Weiner wants her to play it -- very subdued and repressed, but by design or not, she's not a terribly compelling actress.

Imagine how much weaker The Sopranos would have been if Edie Falco couldn't hold her own (and then some) up against James Gandolfini in the countless wonderful scenes they had together.

Yeah. I agree with the comment about the other characters and the slow start. I also think the writing doesn't always pop as nicely as Sopranos did. While Sopranos would start "slow", you would still feel like you watched something happen, while Mad Men, I find that I have a bit of an empty feeling. Though I'll admit, I really liked this season's opener.

As for January Jones. I really despise Betty, so I am biased. I can't decide if she is playing her character remarkably well and that is why I dislike her so much. Or if I just hate the character regardless.

[aprilemoney]

Last nights Mad Men episode was excellent. I thought both John Hamm and January Jones were great!

I think Matt Weiner has done a great job with this show.

I can't say enough good things about it!

[AJColossal]

I figure that last episode's revelation will probably go down as a top-5 significant moment in the run of the show (unless Mad Men really goes haywire with twists and shocking developments -- uh, not likely) , and I thought it was a good scene. Not mind-blowing, but an interesting and well-acted scene.

So you had a chance here for the show to have it's Whitecaps moment, and really just go for it in a dramatic sense, but they played it pretty tastefully and safe. I keep wanting the show to go in a direction it just won't go, and I have to learn to stop doing that.

But yes, really cool development, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

[mutualdream]

I thought at any moment Suzanne was going to walk in the house when Dick was confessing to Betty. Now that was intense.

Interestingly enough, I was flipping through channels on Monday, and what do I turn to on A&E but the classic Tony and Carmela spar in "Whitecaps."

[conkom]

I don't know if anyone else here also watches Dexter (created by another Sopranos alumni - James Manos Jr) but there are some eerie parallels to Mad Men.

Both Dexter and Draper have had some secret revealed to their wives and both have been accused of risking their marriages because of this. Dexter's wife Rita however does not know the full extent of what he is really hiding.

I wonder if the JFK assassination will be covered at all by season's end of MM?

[AJColossal]

I wonder if the JFK assassination will be covered at all by season's end of MM?

At the rate they're moving through the 1963 timeline with each episode, I don't see how they can't. They might even be there by next episode.

Remember, Roger's daughter's wedding is scheduled for the day after.

[Rike]

awesome episode sunday! very sad there's only one left this season. :(

[badabellisima]

Finally back again- sorry to have missed tracking these more recent posts.

Can't say i thought they quite captured the national mourning around the Kennedy assasination. Again, i'm starting to think that the fact that the main writers weren't around for that time is catching up with the show- its becoming a caricature of itself, if that makes sense. It is losing a personal gut level feel for the times; or perhaps starting to reflect the isolated viewpoint of the upper middle class perspective that i think Weiner refers to remembering as a kid.

Per previous posts by AJColossal and that excellent exchange with Garth, i'm starting to wonder if January Jones is quite up to the task. I mean- she makes for a great plastic Barbie doll... but doesn't seem like she's growing into the role, or keeping up with the times at all or maturing in her relationship with Don/Dick. The unrequited fling with the politician just rang hollow and didn't seem to have real chemistry to me, versus the genuine chemistry igniting between Don and the teacher. To tell you the truth- i think they are far better matched as a couple. The teacher actually has some real thoughts in her head, and isn't just reacting to life all the time. Seems that Betty's only refuge is her increasing drinking, which actually was probably a common vent for upper mid/upper class housewives at that time. With the somewhat not believable storyline of the political fling, i thought they might bring in the valium angle. Although in the first season, which i thought was infinitely better, when they had the precocious little boy Glenn (played by Matt Weiner's son) develop the crush on Betty, i really thought we might hear The Graduate theme song (about Mrs. Robinson) played at some point. That would definitely capture a particular theme of the times and the reality of Mother's Little Helper for genuinely frustrated housewives. Somehow, January just isn't selling me on the Betty i think they are trying to develop. But her character does make me have a touch of understanding that Don feels compelled to look elsewhere for deep human interaction. i mean- imagine waking up to a barbie doll in your bed every morning?! That would get old.

Interesting how in parallel, they are showing us how Sterling is coming up against the reality that he married a kid- locking herself in the bathroom no less- like a pouting teenager! And Mona just completely gets it. What do you bet that Roger gets back with "Red"- it just seems like the logical next direction. Joan's pet doctor goes off to war, maybe doesn't come back, and Roger finally realizes what he threw away.

i am hoping the wannabe Governor's fainting setee or chaise lounge (!) or whatever that was in Betty's living room goes away. - or has it already disappeared? Ghastly. :icon_eek:

[conkom]

Hi Bada,

I thought the episode was quite good and well paced. Despite the audience knowing the significance of November 22 it was interesting to see how people at that time went about their routines and sometimes petty concerns and then watching that all be overshadowed by the events that followed.

The scene where Pete and Harry were discussing Kenny's promotion while the soap opera on TV was interupted by the newsflash exemplified the turn of events.

I was too young to remember that day but even here in Australia it shaped our collective consciousness especially in the years that followed. I do clearly remember King's and RFK's assassinations and the impact these had.

JFK's death represented a watershed for the sixties and it will be interesting to see how Mad Men will portray the social, cultural and political changes that will soon follow.

This has been an excellent season. We seem to forget because of the rose-tinted nostalgia for the times that the early sixties was still a stifling and oppressive period for women and minorities. In that respect I wish to commend January Jones for her portrayal of the ice-queen housewife. Don and Betty are truly opposites in many respects. They both complement and negate one another. They are the yin and yang of the show.

I do hope the series sees out the 60s. Apart from Mad Men, Dexter, Curb Your Enthusiasm and watching the Wire for the first time on DVD, there are awfully slim pickings when it comes to TV viewing.
It makes one want to watch the Sopranos all over again!

[AJColossal]

So, what did we think?

I was kind of...baffled.

[mutualdream]

So, what did we think?

I was kind of...baffled.

Loved every minute of the finale. Actually, the last half of this season was the best run I've seen from Mad Men. Easily.

I can't be the only one who chuckled (or groaned) when the first image we see in the finale is Don sleeping...quite reminiscent of another show which name excapes me. ha.

[Garth]

Loved every minute of the finale. Actually, the last half of this season was the best run I've seen from Mad Men. Easily.

I can't be the only one who chuckled (or groaned) when the first image we see in the finale is Don sleeping...quite reminiscent of another show which name excapes me. ha.

That finale was pitch perfect. Really I couldn't think of a way they could have improved upon it. Jon Hamm did an excellent job showing subtle and less-than-subtle conflict. All around amazing.

[conkom]

Just watched it now. Agree with the sentiments here it was a perfect season finale. Re: Don's marriage break-up and watching his stoic and cool demeanour gave me a little bit of hope and strength.

[Garth]

I posted my thoughts on another forum, but I will try to sum it up here, in case anyone is interested (or reading this thread still)

*Don's shamble of a marriage: Very interesting how things crumble right when Don shows weakness and emotion. Granted Betty used the excuse that the lies were what pushed it over the edge. But I think everyone knew that was just an excuse.

*I have never been a Betty fan, but it amazed me...leaving her older kids with the nanny during the holidays, while she flies to Nevada with her youngest (I'd imagine the only reason she even brought that one along was because he hasn't a mind of his own yet) to get her marriage annulled and her new marriage ratified.

*Don's visions of his step-father perfectly bookended this episode, and ALSO this season. Remember the first episode of the season opened with Don in the kitchen dreaming about his step-dad.

*My only real complaint was how easily all these characters fell into the places that they needed to be for the season to end. But even that is a bit faulty an argument, since each character transitioned to a realistic place prior to becoming renegades, it made it believable, but also a bit not--since all the major characters of Sterling-Cooper were kept around.

*I can't help but notice the difference of atmosphere without all the characters being separated by offices. I think Weiner really had something to say about this (even the name of the episode, "Shut the Door. Have a Seat" refers to offices). The characters all worked as a team of sorts, in the brief moment we saw, unlike when each had their own office and would sit in solitude and uncomfortable silence, drinking and smoking and stewing and brooding.

*Furthermore, the look of accomplishment and pleasure on Don's face as he pans the room, that is something we have never seen. It is a clear juxtaposition between his blood family which is in shambles. Interestingly, by Don opening lines of communication and bringing together the renegades of Sterling-Cooper, he is letting himself get closer to his co-workers then we have seen to anyone else. Most notably his own family. I am sure it will not be smooth sailing from here, but the fourth season can't come quick enough.

[conkom]

Good review Garth. Yes I wonder if anyone if anyone is still interested to post here two and a half years after the Sopranos ended. What are the Mad Men boards like?

One correction though. Archibald Whitman who was killed in the flashback was young Dick's biological father. His stepfather was "Uncle Mack".

[Garth]

Good review Garth. Yes I wonder if anyone if anyone is still interested to post here two and a half years after the Sopranos ended. What are the Mad Men boards like?

One correction though. Archibald Whitman who was killed in the flashback was young Dick's biological father. His stepfather was "Uncle Mack".

Ah, thanks for the correction. I am pretty hazy on Dick/Don's history (even more then I should be, I think)...I ought to go read up on it.

[badabellisima]

Yes, excellent review Garth! I just thought the finale was fantastic, and completely redeemed some misgivings that were building in my mind about where all this is going. The Betty-politician thing took me by surprise- i didn't think they developed those characters or their relationship enough to justify that result- but who knows? Maybe by the time they land in Las Vegas, it'll be on its way out, or they won't do much with them for the future season...But realistically, they'll be back, and i'll still be glad for it!

And the parallels between Don and Tony are starting to show more- as bosses whose star is ascending-- as a result of their own efforts and also as a result of complete luck and some outside forces at work.

i can hardly wait for the next season! And Garth- where is that other forum? The AMC forum? i haven't checked it lately, as it is a bit lame and hard to use. But if you are posting there, i will defintiely check back in!

Grrrreat Show!! :icon_biggrin:

[Garth]

i can hardly wait for the next season! And Garth- where is that other forum? The AMC forum? i haven't checked it lately, as it is a bit lame and hard to use. But if you are posting there, i will defintiely check back in!

Grrrreat Show!! :icon_biggrin:

Oh, no no. I am a member of forum run by a specific comic book writer, Brian Michael Bendis. It is much different atmosphere than here. The topics are typically about pop culture. Completely different atmosphere than here. Much less focused. But there are some good threads about shows, movies, and books. I am the resident Sopranos guru over there, naturally. So I also seem to be the go-to Mad Men guy as well. But if you are at all curious about it, you can head over to www.jinxworld.com

I always try to steer clear of official message boards, since the official websites seem to have less intelligent conversations for some reason (not to sound pretentious).

As for the next season, I'd imagine it'd begin airing late summer of 2010, since that seems to be their schedule. It'll be a hell of a wait!

[badabellisima]

Thanks for the link, and you are right about the wait!...

[Garth]

Thanks for the link, and you are right about the wait!...

If you are at all curious about what Sopranos fans on a comic book message board (the one I linked earlier) thought about the show. We had a somewhat official thread that someone started when he began watching the show (but after it had already concluded). There are some good conversations, and it is kind of neat to see what non-sopranos-crazies (and I say that with all love possible, my fellow members) thought of the show. Check it out if interested. http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=135119

[jouster]

Nice avatar over there, Garth. I actually live a block away from the theater that has monthly midnight screenings in LA. Tommy is usually there, as well.

[Garth]

Nice avatar over there, Garth. I actually live a block away from the theater that has monthly midnight screenings in LA. Tommy is usually there, as well.

:-D ! Awesome! They do monthly showings here as well. They have steadily been increasing in popularity. SO much fun, I have been at least 5 times and own the dvd. It is a blast.

For anyone interested in what we are talking about, it is a cult movie called The Room. One of those its-so-bad-its-good movies. Its been called the Citizen Kane of horrible films. Here is a trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCj8sPCWfUw

[badabellisima]

If you are at all curious about what Sopranos fans on a comic book message board (the one I linked earlier) thought about the show. We had a somewhat official thread that someone started when he began watching the show (but after it had already concluded). There are some good conversations, and it is kind of neat to see what non-sopranos-crazies (and I say that with all love possible, my fellow members) thought of the show. Check it out if interested. http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=135119
Found You! And you're online with the little green light- but i couldn't log in :icon_frown: . Craaaazy site- but cool. You're facebook wasn't linking.

[Garth]

Found You! And you're online with the little green light- but i couldn't log in :icon_frown: . Craaaazy site- but cool. You're facebook wasn't linking.

Yeah it is pretty out there. Just a warning for other Chase Lounge members. It is nowhere near as reserved or professional as this forum. Did you register there? I believe you need to register there, even though the forum style is the same as here, it does not allow you to log in with your info from here. Also, they don't let you use Yahoo or AOL email addresses, in an effort to cut down on spammers. As for my facebook...really? I just tried it and it worked fine. Weird!

[Garth]

For those interested here is a link for an article about the third season of Mad Men's release on dvd/blu-ray
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Mad-Men-Season-3/13146

as well as a link to the box art here...
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Mad-Men-Season-3-Box-Art/13151

[badabellisima]

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!

[AJColossal]

Perusing the "Best-of-the-2000s" TV lists online, this one stood out as the only list (to my knowledge) to have Mad Men ahead of Sopranos:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/2008-12-6-the-fien-print/posts/tv-s-best-of-the-decade-no-3-mad-men

I believe Sopranos was #5.

[conkom]

And once again "The Wire" gets no.1 of the decade (it's strange to think that 2009 instead of 2010 should be considered the "end of the decade").

And Time Magazine had "The Sopranos" as equal 7 to "Survivor".:icon_confused:

However an Australian popular culture writer did put the Sopranos just ahead of the Wire on the grounds that at least the former could be funny.

I took adavantage of buying the DVD box sets when they were just under $20 each. I thought this would be the opportunity to finally watch this series which so many people were raving about.

And after 5 episodes I still can't fathom why these informed adjudicators choose to put the Wire above the Sopranos (let alone placing the Sopranos somewhere down the middle of the Top 10 pack).

Don't get me wrong. It is well acted and scripted. And it probably deserves the accolades. But...

It is not compelling television. And any program that makes one hour feel like a day can't be entertaining. Some say that watching the show and following and absorbing the storylines has its rewards. I actually find it punishing instead.

I hate to sound nasty but I wonder whether these fans and critics are trying to be a little bit too clever (pretentious perhaps?). The problem I have with what I have seen is that the "realism" is overdone and overwrought to the point where it is clearly a contrivance, the opposite to what the producers of the show intended.

No one seriously suggested that the Sopranos was "realistic" although it did feel "real". But there was a depth to the storylines and even in the incidental sub-plots, and to the characters and character interaction, that made it (to my subjective mind) not only the best series of the decade but ever!

Admitedly I have only seen 5 episodes of season 1 of the Wire. Perhaps it does get better. Maybe if I had watched it during its original run I might have thought differently. However I don't look forward to watching another episode and sometimes I watch half and episode and leave it for a week or two.

But from what I have seen so far I would rank the Wire as the most over-rated and (ironically) superficial show of the "noughties". But I hope when I get through a few more episodes I will prove myself wrong.

[AJColossal]

Well, if it's any consolation to you, metacritic.com compiles all of the critics' top-10s and best-of-decade lists, and by their metrics, Sopranos was the #1 show of the 00's, ahead of even The Wire.

The Wire gets better as you go on. It is a very well-plotted show; sometimes, I think, better than The Sopranos (probably due to Chase's sometimes indifference to plot). But I really believe that the Sopranos was the better artistic achievement.

You have to remember that The Sopranos was a critical and pop culture sensation. People's grandmothers' watched The Sopranos. By comparison, no one watched The Wire. I think it explains some of the overwhelming critical respons towards the show the show. After all, isn't it more fun to champion the great band that no one's heard of instead of the great band they play on the radio every five minutes?

And to bring the discussion back to Mad Men, I have no idea what the critic I referenced is doing by placing it ahead of Sopranos. How you can say three seasons of a show surpasses the complete work of another (that completely informed and guided it) is a real head scratcher.

[conkom]

Yes you are right about Mad Men. As good as it is, comparing it to the full series of the Sopranos is premature. And even if one compares both series' first 3 seasons. The Sopranos still is the show that sets the standard.

Thanks for the metacritic heads up. It does look like the Sopranos does shade The Wire in most people's estimation.

I will admit I have been churlish about the Wire. I guess listening to people raving about "it's even better than the Sopranos" made me more ready to look for its flaws.

I will take the trouble to watch the rest of it when I get a chance.

Like the rock band comparison analogy.

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

You have to remember that The Sopranos was a critical and pop culture sensation. People's grandmothers' watched The Sopranos. By comparison, no one watched The Wire. I think it explains some of the overwhelming critical respons towards the show the show. After all, isn't it more fun to champion the great band that no one's heard of instead of the great band they play on the radio every five minutes?

This is exactly what I guage to be driving some of the "backlash" (if you can call it that) towards the Sopranos. The elitist snobbery that infects most areas of critique is also bound to discount a show with a healthy demographic of viewers that admitedly watched priimarily for the whackings and bare tits. "If those idiots love it, how good could it be," so they would argue.

All the more reason the Sopranos was so great in that it could appeal for all kinds of reasons to all kinds of people. Chase used the term "zeitgheist" in connection with the unique confluence of factors that made the show such a wide-raning critical and popular success, and I think that's exactly right.

In the end, all that really matters is that those who love it, like we do, know it's value. And it will be talked about in the film and literature departments of universities for decades, if not centuries, to come when shows like "The Wire" and "Lost" will be mentioned (if at all) only because they were contemporaries with it.:icon_wink:

[conkom]

I will take the trouble to watch the rest of it when I get a chance.


Mea Culpa.

Just finished the second season.

And it was very very good. Almost reminiscent of the Sopranos. I was being very churlish. :icon_redface:

Sopranos still the best show ever.

But The Wire comes very close.

(And to keep it on-topic probably better than Mad Men so far. However it does deal with different themes.)