Irregular Around The Margins ~ Review [Archive]

Alas1119

April 4th, 2004, 09:22 PM

Well this episode resolved an issue that had been in the back of my mind since the season opener...did Paulie & Christopher really bury the hatchet and could Chrissy really trust Paulie. I knew that when they supposedly "made up" after the killing of that waiter that Paulie was being false. I didn't get the warm fuzzies when they reconciled their animosity...I knew that Paulie would show his true colors toward Chris eventually and I told my husband so.

And lookie, lookie, Paulie ended up egging Tony to kill Chris...luckily Tony B was the voice of reason...

Crazy episode...but a good one.

Shogon Ramel

April 4th, 2004, 09:22 PM

In my opinion, it doesn't show weakness on Tony's part...

Everyone knows Tony has always been more lenient toward Chris than anyone else, and there's no exception here.

Had that been Paulie, Sil, etc... that did that, they would have gotten blown away.

Bucky Aprile

April 4th, 2004, 09:33 PM

I think Paulie was trying to help Chris. He said he thought Chris knew the gun was unloaded when he aimed it at T. Therefore, Chris was not really trying to kill T, and T need not kill him.

Zillajay23

April 4th, 2004, 10:04 PM

This was one to remember, nothing like I expected I think one of the best episodes in a long time. This episode single handedly changed the face of the family. Tony and Chris will never be the same, Tony will always have a feeling that Chris is not ok with the whole situation, he probably won't spend as much time at the Crazy Horse, Chris knows everone was talking about it and will not be able to totally forgive Tony even though nothing happened. Even though it very well could have and looked like something was going to happen right before the accident. The whole episode was a surprise to me and the fact that Tony took Chris out to the woods with the intention of scaring him if not killing him if he had to was as tense a moment as they come in Sopranos. This episode was intense and memorable just a classic that I will watch many times over and is why this show is the greatest.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=zillaj ay23@sopranolandforum>Zillajay23</A> at: 4/5/04 6:22 pm

King Junior

April 4th, 2004, 10:10 PM

Bucky Aprile is right. Paulie told T to kill Chris? Where did you people get that from? Chris went in there with empty bullets. He didn't want to kill Tony.

But that was a good episode and am glad Chris is still alive. And GOD DAMN Adrianna is hot! You can't blame Toine for not being able to control himself around that. DAMN!!!

chicoxl

April 4th, 2004, 10:17 PM

Paulie tried to SAVE Chris as far as I can tell, unless (in the world of the mob) shooting up the bosses car is as bad as trying to kill him.

Regardless, wonderful episode. Tony was proven a liar throughout the entire show (his attraction to Ade, his drug use, etc)... Totally amazing. Just amazing.

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 4th, 2004, 10:19 PM

I agree with Bucky Aprile and King Junior. My first interpretation of the field scene was that Paulie was egging TOny on, but that's because I first thought he was talking about the gun T was holding on Chris. I knew that didn't make sense because T drew his gun from his own pocket, and therefore Chris would have had no knowledge of whether it was loaded, which it most certainly would have been.

But my aunt, janicezany, got me straight. The gun Paulie was referring to was Chris' automatic that he'd emptied into T's car so that once Chris came inside the bing, he would have to have known it was empty, which it was. Chris then curses at Paulie because he doesn't want to be perceived as weak or lacking resolve to go after Tony for screwing Ade.

It was an unexpected gesture from Paulie, who I would fully have expected to give his seal of approval on Chris' whacking. And I think it's probably the best real gesture of friendship Paulie's ever made, especially because intervening could have gotten him in trouble with T.

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 4th, 2004, 10:28 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>They should've killed Chris. . . . Shows weakness on Tony's part.<hr></blockquote>

I agree with this, in the sense that Tony's own men will come to doubt that he has the resolve to always do what the "code" calls for, particularly coming on the heels of the thing with Feech, where he was sent back to prison instead of clipped. It will lessen the fear factor, lessen the mystique, and ultimately encourage others to take liberties.

I also think it shows strength on T's part in terms of his moral growth, in the sense that he declines to kill him even though he knows he absolutely should have.

And then there's the point that he was at least close to screwing Ade but at the very least hesitated and hemmed and hawed. As Melfi said, that's a breakthrough for him, in and of itself.

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 4th, 2004, 10:32 PM

I do not think this was the best ep of the season (that's between eps 1 and 4), and certainly not the best in several seasons. But it was very, VERY good, very well-done on all fronts given the premise. And I agree that what transpired, however patched over, will have substantial influence on the the ultimate course of the series.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonm elfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/5/04 3:46 am

PIZZALAND

April 4th, 2004, 11:01 PM

Man, I would have hated for that to happen, but I think that is exactly what should have happened. From the mob books I've read it would seem that Tony should have killed both Feech and Chris.

I thought the episode was simply amazing. I think it's the best of the season so far.

ursulaspecter

April 4th, 2004, 11:06 PM

I read some of the criticisms of this episode, and I understand them, but have to say that for me, this episode will stand out. I LOVED it. I wondered if the ending signaled some sort of reconciliation between Tony and Carmela, the way Tony was gazing at Carmela when she went to dinner with him, as if he was realizing something about their bond that she would actually agree to go with him.

Yankchic22

April 4th, 2004, 11:09 PM

Thats what I didnt understand. That last scene, where Tony and Carmela, and Chris and Ade were all out to dinner. Whats up with that? Chris just beat the crap out of her, and she's having dinner with him? And didnt Tony and Carmela just have an argument?

harmony2k66

April 4th, 2004, 11:22 PM

Well, I guess I should have listened to everyone else, and realized that Ade wouldn't end up screwing around with Tony. I can only assume that the Spoiler, and Wanda's remark about "Delaware", meant that they were out in the sticks. All in all, I thought it was a really good episode. Not one of the best, but still keeping up with this seasons A+ average so far. The ending, and I know it's just the use of opeara, but it reminded me of Season Two's "D-Girl". Still, Tony and Chris in the field was perfect and will stand out in my memory as one of the scenes to remember from this season. And Paulie saving Chris's life! There's hope for the silver winged Walnuts after all. Eight more to go.

ursulaspecter

April 4th, 2004, 11:34 PM

Adriana made that comment to the FBI agent (name?) that is Chris had done what she did, just riding in a car with a strange woman, she would have *killed* Chris, which I thought was her way of saying she didn't blame Chris for his action . . . As far as Carmela, during the argument, I got the sense Carmela did believe Tony for once? I'm not sure about that one.

sansanatomy666

April 4th, 2004, 11:38 PM

i think all in all this episode marks the beginning of the end for Tony - at least as the acting boss. his "being soft" is bad for business. it'll either start a chain reaction in loose action among captains and soldiers, or it'll inspire general mutiny and a coup of some sort.
just my 2 cents.
great episode, this season has a weird aesthetic to me. i cant really describe it. not in a bad way.. just different.

aalleyne

April 4th, 2004, 11:54 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Adriana made that comment to the FBI agent (name?) that is Chris had done what she did, just riding in a car with a strange woman, she would have *killed* Chris, which I thought was her way of saying she didn't blame Chris for his action . . . <hr></blockquote>

Right. Although I think she's talking s--t when she says that, because she wouldn't have. She probably would have ignored it and buried her head in the sand, like all these mob wives do. Remember when she caught Chris' hand on "Danielle Ciccolela"'s leg last season, and ended up blaming "Daniell" for it? And remember when she saw Christopher openly flirting with that other stripper at the club, or whatever she was, and Ade ratted her out to her FBI agent handler, Robyn Sanseverino? If anything, Ade would have killed whatever woman Chris was in the car with--not Christopher himself!

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The ending, and I know it's just the use of opeara, but it reminded me of Season Two's "D-Girl". <hr></blockquote>

Well, I can't remember what the song was at the end of that one (I'll watch it again now), but I do know that the opera bit reminded me of the ending of Season 3's "Pine Barrens", as well as the very beginning of the following episode, "Amour Fou". A rather lovely tune that was, too.

Silvio

April 5th, 2004, 12:10 AM

Being a Baltimore Ravens fan, I loved seeing Tony Siragusa having a role in this ep! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

Soda drink

April 5th, 2004, 12:12 AM

fantastic episode. this season is remarkable so far. very intense........and YES Paulie help save chrissy, you can tell in his voice that he was shaky but didnt want to go against tony...great stuff all around.

mrmuddywaters

April 5th, 2004, 12:24 AM

I thought this was a great episode. Tony's attraction to Adriana came out of left field, who saw that coming? Loved the scene at the end when the family goes into Artie's restaurant all dressed up and trying to act normal, when we know that in fact nothing is normal.

I keep expecting Adriana to get whacked since its been announced that Drea De Matteo is leaving to do the Friends spinoff series on NBC. But what a twist it would be if she actually stays and Christopher is the one who gets whacked! Then Adriana becomes Tony's new mistress.

bishop null

April 5th, 2004, 12:29 AM

Great episode.

I loved that I actually had sympathy (but also contempt) for everyone who was affected by the rumor?

Tony... He went to see Melfi and clearly knew what the right thing was in this situation. Maybe he was actually trying to exercise ?impulse control? but if not for the accident, well, who knows? But the main thing to me is that nothing happened so he?s getting a bad situation that (for once) he doesn?t deserve.

Adriana... I never felt sorry this girl until recently but, damn, she's been through hell lately. Of course some part of her couldn't help but be attracted to someone that she views as very much like an older version of her fianc?. Also I think some part of her knows that if she did had something going with Tony that it would help the FBI case which may have been motivating her? But still, what does she expect when she's with Tony Soprano at 2 am?

Christopher? Okay, he?s a fiance-abusing bastard but he really got a hard situation here. I felt sympathy for him tonight big time, and I haven?t really felt much empathy for him since the long-lost acting class from season two. I can?t really think of anything worse that could happen to him to break his sobriety (Well, except maybe for the fact that Adriana is working with the FBI). His realization that even if the rumor wasn?t true that it didn?t matter was so completely right on that it gave me goosebumps.

Carmella... Now that she?s thrown Tony out, it?s hard not to feel this woman. It seems so unfair that she would get stained with this crap. Add the fact that she at least partly believes that the rumor wasn?t true, and it was really heartbreaking. But I really think she didn?t appear at the ?make-up? dinner for Tony?s sake but for own, so that she would look better and save face with everyone.

By the way, I agree 100% that Paulie was actually trying to help Chrissy (or least let him live) with his comment about the gun being empty.

Tony B came through as a serious voice of reason tonight, and I really wish that he can keep at least some of his rehabilitated nature through the season. I have loved every time he?s been on screen, and I hope Chase has more in mind that just a ?Carlito?s Way?-esque story of the criminal who can?t escape his past.

It was a very gripping episode for me. I kinda wish Tony?s attraction to Adriana had been foreshadowed a bit more but then when does Tony actually need time to get the hots for a woman?

I think these have been the best sequential five episodes since Season 1. So once again, wow.

stvrap79

April 5th, 2004, 12:57 AM

Where was Tony Sirigusa in the episode?? must have missed him

Silvio

April 5th, 2004, 01:05 AM

stvrap,

I'm fairly sure it was him. He was one of the people in the bar who grabbed Chrissy when he waved the gun. He was also there for that mock execution.

Mampi Swift

April 5th, 2004, 02:36 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm fairly sure it was him. He was one of the people in the bar who grabbed Chrissy when he waved the gun. He was also there for that mock execution. <hr></blockquote>

Correct you are... I hope we get some more Goose in the future, maybe even with a little more dialogue.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mampis wift>Mampi Swift</A> at: 4/5/04 2:36 am

Soda drink

April 5th, 2004, 03:05 AM

I dont even think what paulie said is grounds for debate...its as obvious as the nose on christopher's face.

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 5th, 2004, 04:07 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I wondered if the ending signaled some sort of reconciliation between Tony and Carmela, the way Tony was gazing at Carmela when she went to dinner with him, as if he was realizing something about their bond that she would actually agree to go with him. <hr></blockquote>

That is exactly how I took that, not as necessarily signaling a future reconciliation but as confirming a lasting sense of obligation and emotional fidelity between them. I have to say that as many memorable scenes as there were in the ep, my favorite was that quiet little moment where Carm almost looks at Tony and immediately looks away while he continues to look at her, all set to that GLORIOUS Puccini aria. It was really quite moving to me.

Love is not often manifested between these people in "normal" ways. But even though they are separated and he can now fully unmask his incorrigible philandering, the fact that Tony went to her twice and was seeking some kind of assurance that she believed he wasn't that low showed how much his image in her eyes still matters to him. Other than the obvious need for Chris to believe it, Carmela was the one person whose opinion really mattered to him. And her reaction when he insisted she tell him whether she believed him was just classic. She clearly has every reason not to and knows that even his truths are nearly always half truths. But her emotional reaction showed how much she WANTS to believe in the vestiges of goodness she always thought he possessed, and I suppose that was enough for Tony.

Beautiful, beautiful sequence.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonm elfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/5/04 6:09 am

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 5th, 2004, 04:52 AM

Did anyone notice Melfi's reaction when she asks Tony about Ade and he begins with "she's drop dead gorgeous"? A very discernable look of disappointment passed across her face in that moment. I swear I could read her thoughts: "He's moved on. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"> And so soon!"

Then she ramped things up even further when arguing that his crap about having no "self control" was a rationalization. She shifted uncomfortably in her seat and actually turned away from him, sideways, unable to really make eye contact when she reminded him that he'd just recently told her she was "drop dead gorgeous" and seemed to be surviving just fine even though she told him she wouldn't date him.

Now I suppose that had some minimal anecdotal value to help prove her point, but I don't think for a minute that was the real reason she brought it up. It reminded me of Elliot's gratuitous reminder about the "c" word (which visibly irked her). I think she was greatly dismayed at the prospect that Tony has already supplanted her with another prospective conquest and object of fascination. She seemingly wanted to remind him that he's infatuated with her and that she was the one controlling the fact that they are not now currently involved.

To me this just proved that Melfi has it worse for Tony than I thought. There is a component of simple flattery, to be sure, but I think she'll be secretly hurt if he stops sending her flowers and bath potions! I hope Elliot can navigate his way through this in future eps.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonm elfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/5/04 4:52 am

SofiaGiovanna

April 5th, 2004, 07:09 AM

Fly--

your last two out of three points...I absolutely, absolutely agree on. Your readings of the Soprano women (Carmela, Melfi) are dead on.

For me it was the best ep. of the season thus far...
I think it'll be one of those reverberating episodes. We'll feel the undercurrents of this one into season six.

sofia

TheSopranosHBO

April 5th, 2004, 12:35 PM

I'm really curious as to see how Tony's new "moralistic" view on Moblife and Real life will take it's course in the last 18 episodes. Any thoughts on his "revelations" so to speak?

Johnnyo12

April 5th, 2004, 12:35 PM

This whole Episode cought me off gaurd. I never thought T would let himself fall for Ade.
I agree with others that I loved seeing Tony seek Carm's approval. I think things between Chris and T will never be the same. Paulie did help Chris, Tony will not be percieved as week. I believe no one realy wanted him to off Chris. Who knows where this season is going to go. But I now think Tony will secreatly continue to desire Ade, he will use her talking with the Fed's as a way out for himself.

TheSopranosHBO

April 5th, 2004, 12:38 PM

I highly doubt T will go after Ade anymore simply for the fact that he seeks approval from Carm and it could lead to a Reconciliation between those two (here's to hoping!!)

mslindac90046

April 5th, 2004, 12:44 PM

Since this season was already shot before she got the part, De Matteo's new role has nothing to do with what happens this season. Chase stated last year that he had the two final seasons already laid out in his head.
I'd bet he doesn't have her whacked just because that's what people expect. He likes to surprise you.

OldMaid54

April 5th, 2004, 01:02 PM

FlyOnMelfisWall:

Good observation on Melfi. Yes, I noticed that too. Melfi actually seemed a little jealous, no? Absolutely, she was jealous! As a matter of fact, she couldn?t stand it when Tony brought up Adrianna. However, I was very glad that Tony did not follow through.

As with the last excellent episode, I was clueless once more.
I almost thought that Tony was going to move back in with Carm when he came to the house. And the thing with Christopher, that was tense.

As a Caddy owner/lover, I was very surprised & screamed at the accident and was wondering if Adrianna would make it, but I knew Tony was alright.

Terrific last scene with the dinner, it said a lot more that words.

Old Maid

ObservingEgo

April 5th, 2004, 01:17 PM

I concur with your interpretation, Fly... JM did register affective jealousy/disappointment with the "drop dead gorgeous" statement by Tony. Furthermore, she immediately went on a fishing expedition to hopefully invalidate (for herself) what she had just heard. She reminded him that he had only recently made the same comments about her (JM). Alas, she did not receive the stroke, she sought.

So many posted comments resonate with my experience of this episode. For me it was painful...almost unendurable. Essentially, everyone relapsed...regressed in one way or another. In rewatching the episode, I was amazed to observe Paulie rally in defense of Chrissy. I just couldn't believe this, in light of past animosities. Here was Paulie's opportunity to rid himself of the one "who got his place." Explanations, please....

The redeeming character for me was Tony B; loved what seemed to be his pragmatic and altruistic plan to have the consultation with Tony's attending. It is sad that the fates will not smile fondly on TB, per preview for next episode...

A question: What do all of you make about the scene in which Tony B came to report to Tony S about the goings-on with Christopher. He reported the events. But, before leaving Tony S's house, excused himself to use the bathroom. In that Chase does not waste filmspace, I am wondering if this seemingly mundane (going to the bathroom) detail is significant? Sort of reminiscent of Big P in bathroom, you know?

lbwalnj

April 5th, 2004, 01:32 PM

Yes, this was a very good, but not a 'great' episode. I think we all knew Chris wasn't going to get killed, but rather get the 'stuff' scared out of him. While Tony is showing some control, even with Carm, I don't think it will last long. As to Paulie being 'nice' to Chris, to me it was a 'good cop-bad cop' routine to keep Chris in line, and probably didn't want to see him killed for many reasons, don't forget that Chris is 'made'. Will Chris have to go back to rehab? Will Ada screw the Feds and in turn will they screw her over? The feds now lost a place for Tony to do business at Ada's club due to the problems with Ada and perhaps Ada not wanting to see Tony hurt. I think Ada respects Tony, like a father figure. Tony B will be in with the family soon, note the previews, and the fact that he found a way to quash the rumors. I like the final scenes at the restruant, where even the Captain came over to give Chris a chance to apoligise and to apoligise himself about spreading the rumors. Clearly the dinner, with all the 'family' there, was to say the rumor wasn't true of Tony/Ada. I think Carm does realize that Tony wouldn't and didn't screw with Ada, but it still doesn't get Tony off the hook. One thing about the references to 'Dover'. There is a Dover, NJ in Morris County, northern part of the state, as well as a Dover Township I think elsewhere in NJ. The reference to Deleware was probably scripted confusion.

GangstersInc

April 5th, 2004, 04:31 PM

I thought it was a great episode. The best one so far (in season 5). One thing though, I didn?t understand why Tony Soprano brought along so many witnesses to Christopher?s "execution". Especially the bouncer from the club. I can understand Paulie etc but that bouncer? No. Also why did Tony Blundetto get involved with this "execution", he helped stop it but still. I thought Tony B. wanted nothing to do with the moblife. He seems to be getting more involved (I haven?t seen the preview for next week though).

OldMaid54

April 5th, 2004, 04:51 PM

GangstersInc:

Good question, there were a lot there. Maybe Tony wanted to make it as humiliating as possible by having all those people there.

Tony B. is slowly but surely gravitating back to the ?Life?. I think he might be getting disillusioned with his present lifestyle.

Old Maid

sansanatomy666

April 5th, 2004, 05:11 PM

Drea De Matteo was on Jimmy Kimmel Live last week and basically came out and said she wasn't getting wacked this season. I was suprised since in any interview with the cast they never answer and questions or give any indication either way when a host asks...

also i cant wait to see Buscemi in on some action

stonedcrazyguy

April 5th, 2004, 06:33 PM

the 2 kids from aj's school, sasha caputo and nick iamitialian, did they get into their accident swerving to avoid a racoon too.

Sopranogirl

April 5th, 2004, 07:32 PM

With all involved in the recent events there must have been some really uncomfortable dinner conversation.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o">

stillmikeyfish

April 5th, 2004, 07:57 PM

Drea De Matteo was on Jimmy Kimmel Live last week and basically came out and said she wasn't getting wacked this season. I was suprised since in any interview with the cast they never answer and questions or give any indication either way when a host asks...

Didn't Joe Pantoliano bet a talk show host, or at least guarantee him, that Ralph would survive the fourth season?

sansanatomy666

April 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Didn't Joe Pantoliano bet a talk show host, or at least guarantee him, that Ralph would survive the fourth season?<hr></blockquote>

i have no clue

aalleyne

April 5th, 2004, 08:14 PM

I realize that I've been saying "No way!" to a hell of a lot of suggestions in this forum of late, so I regret to say it yet again, but I really feel behooved to say it now. I can't believe Tony and Carm will ever go back to the same kind of marital arrangement they had before. Nor do I WANT them to.

There's just too much bad blood between them, folks! The acrimony of their break-up was too great for me to be able to countenance a return to the status quo. Plus one must remember that if the kids didn't seem to particularly enjoy Carm's company before, they seem to downright despise her now, especially that moronic little pr-ck AJ. You think they could stand to live under the same roof again?

Besides, remember that Carm ultimately dumped Tony not because he's a gangster (she's no Kay Adams-Corleone), but because he's a cheating, horny "c--ze-hound", as Chris hilariously called him in Sunday night's episode. And after Tony actually seriously considered bedding down Adriana (of all bloody people--his beloved nephew Christopher's fiancee!!!), it makes no sense to conclude that T could ever change his ways in that particular respect. He'll always "have p--sy on the brain", as he once admitted to Dr. Melfi (see the episode "Funhouse"). After the way that wore Carmela down and finally devastated her, and after the way she reacted to the rumours about Tony and Ade, there's no way they can go back to the way things were before. That, by the way, is also my reason for not WANTING them to get back together. After 20 years of equivocating and settling for less than what she openly admitted she really wanted (a loving family with a faithful husband), Carmela finally corrected the mistake she originally made in marrying Tony in the first place. I can't see her getting back into that "bed of misery" again.

That said, I would like to see the acrimony between them end. Real life is full of situations in which married couples divorce, subsequently to become reasonably amicable with one another, if not good friends. Given the real emotional connection that did truly exist between Tony and Carmela, that's what I'd like to see happen in the end.

But for them to shack up the same way they were before again? No way. Give it up, folks. It's not going to happen.

badabing187

April 5th, 2004, 08:39 PM

Tony B was at the "mock" execution because Chris and Tony are his cousins. As for the other tough guys, they were their because someone had to tie Chris up and hold him back if he lunged, which he did.
I felt the dilemma that Tony was in during that scene. He could have killed his nephew, but then that would mean the rumours were true to everyone. And because he didn't, now both he and especially Chris look weak to the rest of the guys.
I think it was interesting how Joey Peeps and Phil Leotardo pretty much KNEW what was going on between Ade and T, but they were not part of the phone tag part of the show. Now that we can just assume all of NY, ie Johnny Sack, knows about Ade and T, true or not true, this cannot bode well for Tony. Sack now can easily get Chris to start something just like how he got Paulie to. Sack and Chris have something in common, they both KNOW who really killed Ralph who was a Captain. Tony is really creating a big mess for himself and wouldn't it be just like Johnny to jump on it.

brendantait

April 5th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Tony doesn't care about having to lie about Chrissy's disappearance. I don't think that too many people would care, except for Ade, and Chris' mother. (BTW...Is Chris' mother, Joanne Blundetto, a sister-in-law-or sister of Tony Blundetto?) if so, that family is close to incest! Because Dickie is Carmela's parent's first cousin...we need a thread dedicated to the family tree!). Tony is the boss; he doesn't need to worry about anything...the whacking would be justified...Chris was talking sh*t!

bushleaguer1

April 5th, 2004, 09:27 PM

After watching it again I thought this was a good episode.
For some reason, I thought the Tony/Adriana thing was a bit forced. It seemed too out of character for both of them to be interested sexually in one another. I know Tony is on a downward spiral, but it just didn't seem to fit.
Christopher's initial confrontation with Tony after the accident seemed out of character as well.....calling Tony the biggest p****hound and telling him that he would f*** a catchers mitt. I thought his boldness in talking to
Tony like that was a bit unbelievable.

This does set up an interesting dynamic between Christopher and Tony, however. I think Tony may have messed up by not killing Christopher. Tony now has a member of the family that has it in for him....whether he believes Tony or not. You really can't go back to being fond of someone after they've stuck a gun against your cheek. And Tony should remember that only Christopher knows what happened with Ralph. That kind of info. could get Tony in trouble with the capos and others.

I can't wait for Steve Buchemi to take an active role in the family business. Something tells me he is going to be one sick s.o.b.

FlyOnMelfisWall

April 5th, 2004, 09:51 PM

bushleaguer, I just watched it again, and I have to say, it gets better every time. I now would have to agree that it narrowly beats eps 1 and 4 this year and it is destined to remain an all-time favorite ep.

What few reservations I had about it initially were similar to yours, specifically the out-of-the-blue nature of the Ade/Tony interaction. But upon subsequent viewings, I was able to see more and more foundation for its plausibility, given both their circumstances at the moment.

I also think I was stunned the first couple of times I watched at how QUICKLY it moved and at all the sideline items that would have seemed more important in other contexts, principally Tony's skin cancer. Though it centered on only a single premise, the rapidity with which that premise was established and followed through to its inevitable if mildly ironic conclusion was just faster than the show usually moves.

Once I adjusted to that though and figured out a couple of puzzles that initially troubled me (Paulie's motives during the would-be whack), I have to say I think it is a fantastically brilliant ep.

Once again, kudos to Chase and his staff. I'm always pleased to see a Robin Green/Mitch Burgess credit, and they proved once again why they almost never disappoint.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flyonm elfiswall>FlyOnMelfisWall</A> at: 4/5/04 9:53 pm

bshrader

April 6th, 2004, 02:07 AM

One of the worst. I'm in the minority here -- my mom, brother and friends vehemently disagree with me, saying it was one of the best.

But I thought it seemed really contrived and forced. It was too soap-opera-like. I didn't think it met the Sopranos standard. It was rushed. Perhaps as a 90-minute episode, they could have done justice to the plot. But it all seemed out of the blue. It was very "comic book."

Also, The Sopranos excels at subtle, darkly funny humor. But it fails badly when it has Tony B. doing his medical routine in the car. It seemed really silly -- like a page fell out of a Naked Gun movie script. And when he asks the doctor if he'd treated any gunshot wounds or broken kneecaps -- how formulaic. (Although, maybe it was designed to show how far out of the loop Tony B. is?)

For the first time, I left the episode not caring about any of the characters. Here's to hoping for a better episode next week -- and hoping that the shark hasn't been jumped (I doubt that it has).

harmony2k66

April 6th, 2004, 02:54 AM

Pantoliano did in fact bet that he would not be killed in Season Four. An intereviewer asked him and he stated that he would bet the farm that he would make it to Season Five unharmed.

harmony2k66

April 6th, 2004, 02:59 AM

This has been my faviorite season yet.Four is my faviorite, but it wasn't at first. Upon first vieweing I was a little disapointed, but upon revieweing I found it to be the season that was the most focused. My excitement of this season reminds me of how excited I got while Season Three was airing. There was a lot of possibility and a lot of angles thrown in the air. The only problem I had with three was that it seemed they threw so many things up in the air, that they never had any intention of bringing them back down. I'm not referring to Melfi's Rape, Or The Russian, which I thought were great plot points and some of the best The Sopranos have done. I thought Army Of One and University were the two best episodes of Season Three, and still think it is much better than Season Two. So far, Five feels like three with all the possibility and Season Four in that the writing is extremly focused.

GangstersInc

April 6th, 2004, 04:43 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Tony B was at the "mock" execution because Chris and Tony are his cousins. As for the other tough guys, they were their because someone had to tie Chris up and hold him back if he lunged, which he did.<hr></blockquote>

Yes Tony B. wanted to stop the execution, yet he didn?t show that for 75% of the time of the "execution".

They tied Chris up in the club, no need for the bouncer to come along. Paulie is strong enough to hold Chris. This was a mistake in the show. Then again it could be to show how low Tony S. has gone, bringing along bouncers on an "execution". The old Tony S. wouldn?t have done that.

fitzadam

April 6th, 2004, 09:41 AM

I also noticed the large amount of people around during Chris's so-called execution. This gave me the impression that there was no way Chris would have been killed, and Tony knew this from the beginning. If Tony had planned on killing Chris, it would have been only him, Paulie, and Sil. (Perhaps Tony B.)

Just the presence of these other people immediately clued me in that Chris would survive that scene. It was set up for intimidation, nothing more. Although, if he crosses Tony once more his days may be numbered.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fitzad am>fitzadam</A> at: 4/6/04 9:42 am

Sopranogirl

April 6th, 2004, 12:50 PM

I watched the episode again and realized during the scene with the telephone gossip chain Uncle Jun was holding the receiver upside down. another clue that poor Uncle Jun is losing it.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">

thegame1999

April 6th, 2004, 03:15 PM

As I was watching this scene, I was convinced that we had seen the end of Chris and I was desperately trying to think of any clips we might have seen of him in a trailer that hasnt aired yet (which would mean that he lives beyond this scene). Than I recalled the clip where Tony is toasting to Tony B and Chris and says "Gentleman, to a job well done"; right away I felt a sense of relief and knew Chrissy would live on.

badabing187

April 6th, 2004, 08:11 PM

I was waiting to hear, "F*** Family, F*** Loyalty!" from Chrissy but I didn't hear it. I bet when we do hear it, Chrissy will be a goner.

Soda drink

April 6th, 2004, 10:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> watched the episode again and realized during the scene with the telephone gossip chain Uncle Jun was holding the receiver upside down. another clue that poor Uncle Jun is losing it. <hr></blockquote>

Are you sure? the phone line was connected on the bottom (closest to his lip - where it should be).

Sopranogirl

April 6th, 2004, 10:44 PM

Soda Drink, you're right I am looking at it right now ,paused and the connection is at the lip, I think it looked funny to me the way the cord goes behind his head.

mrmuddywaters

April 6th, 2004, 11:27 PM

Jim Gandolfini, Edie Falco, Michael Imperioli and Tony Sirico all signed new guaranteed contracts before this season started, for both season five and six. They are the only four characters who thus are probably guaranteed to be there until the last episode. HBO would be wasting a lot of money if they let the writers whack any of them before the last episode of next season. Otherwise it would cost HBO a lot of money. I could see Junior getting sick and dying, or Silvio getting whacked (Little Steven was on tour with Bruce most of last year during filming so supposedly isn't in many episodes this season anyway) But not Christopher.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mrmudd ywaters>mrmuddywaters</A> at: 4/6/04 11:28 pm

Nick

April 7th, 2004, 03:52 AM

As a Big Tony Soprano Fan im starting to wonder what the F*** is goin on in the last two episodes?

Last Week they ratted Feech out. As much as Feech was annoying they shoulda just wacked him out.If anyone finds out that he was snitched on, (NY) people wont respect or trust Tony anymore.They will think that soon as something doesnt go his way that Tony will rat them out.Very bad for business.

This week he is F***ing around with Ade, another rat by the way, who is his successor,and closest family members fiance. Bad for business as well. He can F*** any Broad he wants why Ade? Now he has people in his own family who dont trust him and have less respect for him. All his Capos are talkin behind his back like a bunch of school girls.Not only that but now hes doin Coke too?! He preaches to chrissy about drugs, and then goes to score some with his fiance?

I never thought I would say this but, Im starting to dislike Tony Soprano. I used to like the fact that he was a very intelligent and shrewed business man. Now it seems like hes turning an ordinary, lowlevel wiseguy with no honour. What the F*** Happened? Its only been 2 episodes?

Any Thoughts? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil">

ktc4unc

April 7th, 2004, 07:54 AM

I was rather surprised by the whole coke thing. I could maybe see him doing it once, but taking her out to Dover to get some in the middle of the night? That seemed a little out of character to me.

raxzor

April 7th, 2004, 01:37 PM

Yup the coke thing dissapointed me, it shows that he is weak. But to do it twice. The ep was OK, nothing special.

eruptus

April 7th, 2004, 02:06 PM

I don't understand the coke-issue. Snorting a line doesn't mean that the guy is out of control. For rich people coke is as big thing as getting drunk on champagne. The fact that the guy is a mob-boss makes this even more plausible. This has nothing to do with the fact that Tony almost killed Chris for using H. Heroin is more addictive and dangerous than coke, which is rich people's drug. Besides, none of the guys preached Ralphie about his habit.

aalleyne

April 7th, 2004, 02:58 PM

Actually, Nick, as another "Big Tony Soprano fan" myself, I have to agree with you to a certain extent--only the roots of my disctontent with Tony started with the 4th season. He did a couple of things then that I didn't like. One, he whacked Ralph over a horse. Two, he resisted Carmela's entreaties to guarantee the family's long-term financial security to ridiculous lengths. Three, he whipped Ron Zellman for hooking up with Irina, an ex-goomar of his whom HE had originally dumped--and almost a good two years previously at that. In short, although these all showed basically reasonable character flaws, Tony was my hero UNTIL Season 4.

Since Season 5 has begun, he's done less to dismay me, so I can't agree totally with your characterization of him as a "lowlevel wiseguy with no honor". Mind you, I still can't get over the senselessness of his infatuation with Adriana; and his snorting coke, as well as his shedding tears (in front of Sil, no less!!!) because "no one loves him" make me wonder about his psychological constitution. But the way he seems to have dealt very well with his separation from Carm (so far at least) and the way he's skillfully and professionally handled MOST of the problems he's encountered in this season so far still impress me.

Gandalf

April 8th, 2004, 01:04 PM

1. Tony never cared for Ralph in the first place, to whack him over a horse, the only thing Tony actually loved, is easy to understand.

2. Tony's delaying setting up trust funds, etc, is very believable - after all, Mobsters don't use banks. Any money he has in the bank, or easily traceable accounts, can be seized by the feds if and when he gets busted. Mobsters are worse than the little old ladies hiding money under the matress or burying it in a coffee can in the back yard. Not to mention his loss of control. It also provides an angle for divorce lawyers to dig in with.

3. His whipping of Zellman was actually being easy on the councilman. Most mobsters would've whacked him without batting an eye.

What I do see, this season (imo) is Tony slowly losing control over everything. He's losing his wife, his house, Christopher (who is supposed to be the heir to his empire), the respect of his captains (?), the Feds are closing in with all of the informants, Uncle Junior is slowly going senile, and Janice is...still Janice. Quite interesting when Dr Melfi is proclaiming that Tony is making real breakthroughs in his therapy.

thegame1999

April 8th, 2004, 04:39 PM

His personal feelings for Ralph are irrelevant. He crossed a big line as Mob Boss by taking him out. If Tony were thinking clearly he wouldnt of laid a finger on Ralph and he probably regrets doing it.

badabing187

April 8th, 2004, 08:47 PM

Whacking Zellman easily? I don't think so. Both NY and NJ share Zellman and the Esplande, whacking him would totally be out of the question unless he was like Mazzerone and ratted. Even slapping him around was pretty harsh, especially since it was over Tony's old goomah and Zellman did everything he could to make sure it was OK with Tony, which he oblidged. It would be bad for business, pure and simple. Same with whacking Ralph over a horse, it was not about business.

thegame1999

April 9th, 2004, 12:08 AM

Whacking a well known politician isnt so easy. Masserone was just a contractor.

Johnnyo12

April 9th, 2004, 12:44 PM

I am not sure what to think about Tony this season... I agree with Melfi that he is doing SOME things right-but then making very strange decisions..

About Ralph- Don't forge Tony was also very upset with Ralph for Killing the stripper. I think Tony admires the innocent, sweet or even in his vision- pure characters. I do feel that it appears Tony is loosing it, but to be honest his handeling of Feech was smart- his discussions and ideas on the NY boss mess where smart. I feel he is actually realizing that he can't depend on those whom he thought he could (Chrissy, Carm) and that is leaving him a bit lost at sea. I think we will see him pull the reigns in soon, either by force or charazima... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

GangstersInc

April 9th, 2004, 01:13 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>his handeling of Feech was smart<hr></blockquote>

Are you kidding? That was the biggest mistake he could make. Now Silvio, Chris and Benny ( ? ) know Tony would rat someone out. And Tony knows that they don?t have a problem with ratting. A big problem has been created. Nothing smart about it.

Johnnyo12

April 9th, 2004, 02:11 PM

1st. He didn't RAT... he set him up to get rid of him. A Rat is someone who spills to the Feds/police to save his own ass. Even Sil thought that was the best way to handle it... Wait ans see- nothing will come of that...

aalleyne

April 11th, 2004, 01:44 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>1. Tony never cared for Ralph in the first place, to whack him over a horse, the only thing Tony actually loved, is easy to understand.<hr></blockquote>

WRONG. You DON'T whack your best earner over a bloody horse. Ralph's earning potential, remember, was a large part of the reason Tony felt compelled to reconcile with Ralph over the stripper/punching thing in Season 3.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>2. Tony's delaying setting up trust funds, etc, is very believable - after all, Mobsters don't use banks. Any money he has in the bank, or easily traceable accounts, can be seized by the feds if and when he gets busted. Mobsters are worse than the little old ladies hiding money under the matress or burying it in a coffee can in the back yard. <hr></blockquote>

Again, that's not entirely accurate. Mobsters HAVE to use banks SOMETIMES, or at least some form of financial institution. You forget that organized crime can't survive without putting up the illusion of business legitimacy. To justify the material possessions they have, they have to show some type of source of income, and for that I'm sure they need bank accounts. Remember the scene in "Casino" where Joe Pesci's character, Nicky Santoro, says, "I couldn't bury all my money under my floorboards, could I?"--and so he goes to Charlie Clark, the banker, to open an investment account.

Anyway, remember that in the 4th season premiere, when Tony told Carmela "I can't declare X amount of my income", Carm wisely and rightly replied, "We file a tax return to justify the house and the cars!" How could they file a tax return if they don't use banks at all?

Trust me--to say that "mobsters don't use banks" is utterly false. They HAVE to use banks in some way and to some extent--albeit fraudulently--because if they didn't, THAT in itself would bring the IRS down on them hard.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>3. His whipping of Zellman was actually being easy on the councilman. Most mobsters would've whacked him without batting an eye.<hr></blockquote>

First of all, would they have whacked a guy who was a crucial linchpin of their money-making schemes? Second of all, would they really have whacked him for dating a goomar whom the mobster in question had already himself dumped--TWO YEARS previously? Maybe, but maybe not . . . If Tony hadn't done that stupid bulls--t he would have been able to keep making money in new ventures with Zellman, which, it appears, has been somewhaton hiatus since the whipping incident. And DON'T forget that that incident ultimately led to Irina's fateful phone call to Carmela!

CarmHera

April 11th, 2004, 02:35 PM

A first post... Tony B's use of Tony's S's bathroom was an odd detail and I agree that DC does not waste space..there was a lot of earlier emphasis about Ade's IBS and its relation to the stress she is under; perhaps this is another high stress situation, causing Tony B. to run to the bathroom like Ade. During an earlier scene with "the boys" watching TV, he also excused himself to go to the john. Subtle clues that all is not right? Or, he could have planted something in the bathroom.