Committing crimes in broad daylight?

[Whackjob]

Ok, Chris & Paulie killing the waiter in a dark grimy back alley (and getting away with is - so far) is barely believeable, but Feech busting up some guy and Paulie doing the same thing in BROAD DAYLIGHT on a residential street? I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.
These guys are professional criminals and have been for 30+ years. This kind of crack & jack type behavior might be acceptable to some homeboys in their own neighborhood because they don't know better and they have little to lose. But, Feech is on parole & Paulie has ties with organized crime and a mother to care for - these kinds of piddly ass crimes make no sense for them to commit IN PERSON bacause the stakes are too high.
If the landscaping route was an important income point or power play, they should have sent a couple of their hired thugs to 'send the message', reminicient of when Tony & Johnny sent 'messages' to one another through the housing appraiser last year.

There's no way that Tony can have the entire NJPD on his payroll, so there has to be legal repercussions for these types of acts. In an older neighborhood like that that has a senior population, residents are always peeping out their windows and they would have witnessed what went down, the kind of cars the guys drove, etc.
I'm sorry, but this type of storytelling is ruining the 'believability' and entertainment I receive from this show.

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[thegame1999]

Interesting topic. In alot of old fashioned Italian neighborhoods, the entire community knows 'whats up' with incidents such as those and keep it to themselves. Many mafiosos (Paulie for one) are the product of these neighborhoods and Organized Crime is so common that everyone pretty much minds their own business; as if the mob is their form of a government. Like in the movie Summer of Sam, as you can see crime is most definitely reported in that neighborhood, and in Godfather 3, the old lady who walks up to Vincent (Andy Garcia) and says something along the lines of, "you have to do something about that Joey Sazza, he has no respect for the neighborhood, selling drugs to kids". This is a possible answer to your concern, but than again, unless someone actually gets a license plate #, its hard to find a suspect based on only descriptions. You definitely know that Sal Vitro and Gary LaManna-who are the victims of this violence-wouldnt speak to cops about this.

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[eruptus]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Ok, Chris & Paulie killing the waiter in a dark grimy back alley (and getting away with is - so far) is barely believeable,<hr></blockquote>
I'd say this is believable, because nobody saw them. If cops start to investigate the murder, they'll probably suspect some local punks instead of out-of-town-mobsters. The murder looks definitely like a botched mugging.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>but Feech busting up some guy and Paulie doing the same thing in BROAD DAYLIGHT on a residential street? I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.<hr></blockquote>
These guys don't commit any major crimes in broad daylight. The feds can't persuade any reluctant civilians to testify against known gangsters, and if the crimes aren't bigger than these beatings, they probably won't even bother to try. The feds in Sopranos are still talking about the Bevelaqua-murder, but don't even try to persuade the eye-witness. Why? Because there's not much they can offer him. The feds try to get made men and associates to testify, because they can offer immunity, witness protection program and basically a way out of the life. I can't see why some civilians wanted to get into the witness protection program, if they don't get any benefits out of it.

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[cutthroat]

If you're gonna muscle a landscaper you have to do it during the day. Plus it also showed what an irrational hot head Feech is.

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[Jager]

http://204.127.198.24/~jagermeister79/sopranos/01-daytimebeating.jpg

http://204.127.198.24/~jagermeister79/sopranos/02-daytimebeating.jpg

http://204.127.198.24/~jagermeister79/sopranos/03-daytimebeating.jpg

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[Whackjob]

eruptus,I respectfully disagree.

You posted, "These guys don't commit any major crimes in broad daylight".

These beatings could easily be prosecuted as attempted murders and the threat of a 10 - 20 stretch in prison could make a guy flip to avoid prosecution. It was reckless and unnecessary for these Capos to do these deeds themselves.

I guess we all will just have to wait and see how this plays out.

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[4nthony]

they arent capos...

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[PatCooper]

Great photos How do u do that- That is simply awesome!

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[harmony2k66]

They took the tab. It would be quite easy for the cops to just count the recipts, realize which one was misssing, question the girls who a a gentleman at the table sent them a bottle of champagne. Granted, no one knows them in Atlantic City, or so they claim, but look at Gotti, he was infamous. Everyone knew who he was. And Johnny Sack was there, and he was featured on a newsprogram earlier on in the episode. I gotta use, it is a movie, which is a copout, but they would have been completly busted. The FBI looks for anything to put away any of these guys, either in real life, or this show, and I think it would be very simple for Paulie and Chris to have to deal with the repercussions of this. I do find the whole landscaping incident, believeable. As someone posted, Italian neighborhoods do keep quiet about certain things. Aunt Mary's Neighborhood was probably hush hush about it. Anyways, I loved the entire waiter scene, and next incident, but they would have gone to jail in a second if this were real life. I mean, think back to Season One, with Chris liftiing merchanides out of a UPS van. Do you remember how pissed Tony was because of possible repercussions? Or when Chris shot that guy in the foot? That one got squashed because Tony had a guy on the force, but a murder, especially after all these big name Mobsters sit down for dinner?

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[eruptus]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> they arent capos... <hr></blockquote>
Yes they are.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>These beatings could easily be prosecuted as attempted murders and the threat of a 10 - 20 stretch in prison could make a guy flip to avoid prosecution. <hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but the guys who got beat up won't testify for the reasons I said before. So there's no case.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub132.ezboard.com/bsopranolandforum.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eruptu s@sopranolandforum>eruptus</A> at: 3/24/04 1:34 am

[badabing187]

If someone does fess up and rats these guys out, it'll be easy for them to find out who it was in the neighborhood. Look how easy it was for them to find Bevilaqua and Jackie Jr. People will gladly tell the Soprano crew in order to score "points" with them. It was easy enough to tamper with a juror, just threaten his family's life.

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[harmony2k66]

I have problems that they were able to get to that Juror so easily. I guess, as Silvio said, that they would have heard about it from our girl inside, in Ratpack. But still, for a trial as big as that of a mafia don, would they really be letting them run around, like he did when he was confronted by The Soprano crew? I now Jurors aiern't imprisoned during there time, but in past Mafia Trials of the past it has been impossible to learn of most of the jurors. They, like OJ's trial, weren't even allowed to read newspapers, or watch the news. Which gets me to ask why the juror who turned would be out for a stroll with his kid buying candy, espeically that close towards the end of a trial.


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[Soda drink]

gangsters get away with these things all the time, it isnt like the tv shows, where every murder and every beating has a happy ending.

All you gotta think about with the waiter murder is this - evidence.

The only thing they (the cops) got is somebody who got shot. there is no murder witness, no gun - no nothing. The murder was quick and slick.

Even if they went and investigated and found what's what with the dinner tab - it wont prove nothing except that maybe mobsters (whoever one) is responsible but that's it. They can't go any further unless there was some sort of witness to identify exactly who was the shooter(s).

And on these beatings - If the victims don't say anything, why would the cops bother???? You can beat somebody, witnesses call the police, the police come --but if the victim doesn't care--the cops can't do nothing. simple as that.

You remember when the gardener was telling Paulie that he was going to the cops and Paulie yelled "Where you from?"
this scene was to show that these gardener are not going to the cops for the beating.

And about the Juror - Not every mafia don case confines there jurors. I believe Vincent the Chin Gigante didnt have that kind of a setup. It all depends on the Judge's decision. It was only after the third time, Gotti's trial did the Judge finally decide to confine the jurors.

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[moth78]

"Even if they went and investigated and found what's what with the dinner tab - it wont prove nothing except that maybe mobsters (whoever one) is responsible but that's it. They can't go any further unless there was some sort of witness to identify exactly who was the shooter(s)."

Well, no, but you can reasonably expect someone will either go into or come out of that parking lot in the next five minutes, so it will be very easy to determine the time of death. And they will know the last couple of diners who paid before the man died. I'm assuming Chris paid with cash, not with a card (he wouldn't be that dumb!), but it's highly likely that the waiter told other restaurant workers about the low tip, or that they saw him go outside. And IMO it's VERY likely that they'll remember exactly who he was serving the night he died. And since some of those guys are public figures... I'm not expecting the show to bring up this matter again, I'm just saying that in real life, the chances of them getting away with this are fairly low.


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[PatCooper]

Noone mentions the conversation cut short by feech before he goes bezerk on the landscapers

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[Vesuvio]

Excellent point, PC.

Feech was about to "frankly discuss" Tony with the other Tony (Tony B).

It's interesting how age is so relative and how one generation views the other: Johnny Sack still thinks that Christopher ought to be waiting in the car rather than expressing his opinion, and Feech thinks of Tony as the "Boy King."

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[PatCooper]

V- exactly- this tells me something is brewing...he takes the kid out to lunch and is on the tip of spillling the beans onhow he feels about Tony S and he goes crazy....things to come???

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[thegame1999]

Do you think Johnny Sack's lack of regard for Christopher is because of his age? If thats the case than you have to wonder how old Chris actually is, considering Joey - who seems to be an apprentice of sort to Johnny Sack - looks about Christopher's age yet still attends important sitdowns and arranges Johnny's dirty laundry (arranging the hit on Ralphie before it was called off).

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[Soda drink]

no i dont think its much about age as it is with a rank and whether or not somebody is really ABLE and READY to be in there position.

how the else did tony become boss at a relatively young age?

Sack was pissed off cause Chris was speaking out of turn and was talking like he had some sort of say of what sack should do.

chris was sitting with top ranking mobsters (including vito). Age has very little to do with anything.

that's why tony soprano said to chris beforehand to keep his mouth shut--which obviously he didnt do.Chris has proven time and time again that he is just not ready to move up on the ladder.

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[thegame1999]

No I know all that, but I was reffering to Vesuvio's statement on how one generation views another.

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[thegame1999]

Jager... where did you get those pics?

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[4nthony]

theyre screen caps

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[jakenspiel]

You talk about broad daylight beatings...remember in Season One where Tony and Christopher are chasing the HMO insurance guy with Christophers car on the grounds where the guy works... in front of all the employee going to work. First Tony clips him with the car..shattering his leg and then they both beat him in front of everyone standing around watching. What Feech and Paulie did pales in comparison....

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[thegame1999]

Good point; but as I have said before, Season 1 didnt really concentrate on realism. Back than they didnt even know whether they were gonna get picked up as a series or not. So you have to suspend disbelief and try not to apply the rules of realism to Season 1. Not saying that its unrealistic; but there is little things here and there that you probably wouldnt see on the show today since realism has grown into a major factor on the show. Do you think you'd see Tony kill someone in broad daylight as he did Chucky Signore? Send 2 guys searching all over town for his sons science teachers car? Or as you mentioned, beating the shit out of an HMO guy in front of about 50 co workers?

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