Sons, ducks and cement blocks

[chaseisgod]

In Ep. 1, Tony becomes depressed when the baby ducks take flight from his swimming pool. They were doing what children of any species must do -- break the bonds of their parents and fly away -- but it saddened him. He felt he was losing his own children. Part of him didn't want Meadow and A.J. to grow up.

Of the two kids, Meadow resisted. She wanted to grow up and fly away. She went to college. She joined a Legal Aid group. She joined Finn for awhile in California. But she couldn't resist home for long. ("Everytime I try to get away, they reel me back in" applies to her, too.) Her constant back-and-forth between med school and law school is just another way to postpone adulthood, to remain dependent on her parents. Where is she now? Back at home.

A.J. has never flown away from the nest. Meadow tells him he should, but he responds by saying he's sick, he needs Carmella's cooking for his blood chemistry, he of the putrid gene. He seems literally tied to adolescence and that house. It's as if there's a cement block around his leg, holding him there. He's stuck.

And who can blame him? It's terrifying to fly away. Remember those first few weeks when you actually left your own nest -- maybe your first month in college? It's exciting, but also scary, like jumping off the high dive into the pool.

Which brings us back to the baby ducks. They didn't just fly away on their own. They were encouraged to do so, and prepared, and pushed, by their mother.

Livia Soprano attached a cement block of despair to every person she ever met, but none heavier or harder to dislodge than on her children. It didn't really work with Janice or Barbara. They escaped, at least for a little while. But not Tony. He was stuck, with her despair and with that other cement block that Johnny Boy placed on him, the expectation that he would join his father's business. When his father sent him with Paulie to kill the bookie, he was guaranteeing that Tony would never fly away, never truly grow up. We've seen that in the childish way Tony appeases his various appetities, from food to women to gambling.

Tony, as we know, had two sons. The first was Christopher. He was the very first person to kill somebody on The Sopranos. He was a stone-cold mobster, and drug addict, and drunk. He was a bad accident waiting to happen, and it happened last week. Tony had many motives when he saw Christopher struggling to breathe -- drowning in his own blood, Tony would describe it later -- but part of him acted, at least subconsciously, to end the cycle, to kill Johnny Boy. You could make the case that Tony had decided that death was better than the Mob Life. If Kaitlynn was better off with her father dead, wasn't Tony better off with his father dead? Maybe that's one of the reasons Tony hasn't shown much remorse. He set Christopher free.

But Livia didn't just work her particular brand of evil on Tony. She left AJ with a cement block of his own -- Life is nothing. You die in your own arms. When AJ tied that block around his foot, he was basically declaring that he was giving in. He was never flying away. He would be an adolescent for eternity.

Who saves him? Tony, now cast as the mother duck. He removes Livia's cement block, as well as the cement block of family expectations. He brings his son out of the water, cradles him like a baby, and there is a feeling here of baptism, of rebirth. Tony is telling A.J. it's OK to fly away.

I think what we have here, in two successive weeks, is Tony subconsciously killing Johnny Boy and escaping Livia -- of "flying away" from her, if you will, letting her drive the bus without trying to hop back in.

To Tony, Christopher's future/his father's past = no hope. A.J. future/Livia's torment = some hope, at least comparatively so.

He drowns Christopher. He saves A.J. from drowning. Isn't Tony saying through his actions that his mother, for all her well-documented faults, represented more hope than his father did? I think Tony is siding with his mother, and that, my friends, is a breakthrough. He can survive her upbringing, but he can't -- and probably won't -- survive Johnny Boy's.

Now, of course, and it's one of the things that make this show so wonderful, is that just as Tony has removed the cement block from AJ's foot, Meadow seems determined to tie it on to her own leg. (Notice her father's lack of excitement at the Patrick Parisi news.)

Maybe it's too late -- maybe the little ducks get to a point where they simply can't fly away -- but Tony now seems to be trying to help them instead of trying to hold them down. That's something, isn't it?

Isn't that progress?

[dad1153]

Livia Soprano attached a cement block of despair to every person she ever met, but none heavier or harder to dislodge than on her children. It didn't really work with Janice or Barbara. They escaped, at least for a little while. But not Tony. He was stuck, with her despair and with that other cement block that Johnny Boy placed on him, the expectation that he would join his father's business. When his father sent him with Paulie to kill the bookie, he was guaranteeing that Tony would never fly away, never truly grow up. We've seen that in the childish way Tony appeases his various appetities, from food to women to gambling.

But Livia didn't just work her particular brand of evil on Tony. She left AJ with a cement block of his own -- Life is nothing. You die in your own arms. When AJ tied that block around his foot, he was basically declaring that he was giving in. He was never flying away. He would be an adolescent for eternity.

Who saves him? Tony, now cast as the mother duck. He removes Livia's cement block, as well as the cement block of family expectations. He brings his son out of the water, cradles him like a baby, and there is a feeling here of baptism, of rebirth. Tony is telling A.J. it's OK to fly away.

Actually if you rewatch the rescue scene you'll see Tony brings the cement block from the depth of the pool out with him into the surface. When Tony went underwater I was sure he would untie the cement block from AJ's foot. Instead he grabbed the rope and using brute force he lifted the block out of the pool along with his son. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but doesn't that mean that even though he didn't drown AJ is still carrying the weight of the cement block dragging him out from the pool and into the rest of his life? And isn't Tony's inability to figure out it would be easier to untie the rope (i.e. freeing AJ from the weights that's drowning him) than to lift the cement block (i.e. saving his son from dying while he still has the weight of the family troubled tied to him) showing Tony hasn't figured things out yet because he's still running on instinct?

If David Chase is reading this he's probably getting a kick out of how we're warping whatever his vision is into something Mesianic and deeper than it really is... like that deep end of the pool where AJ almost drowned! :icon_mrgreen:

[chaseisgod]

Actually if you rewatch the rescue scene you'll see Tony brings the cement block from the depth of the pool out with him into the surface. When Tony went underwater I was sure he would untie the cement block from AJ's foot. Instead he grabbed the rope and using brute force he lifted the block out of the pool along with his son. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but doesn't that mean that even though he didn't drown AJ is still carrying the weight of the cement block dragging him out from the pool and into the rest of his life? And isn't Tony's inability to figure out it would be easier to untie the rope (i.e. freeing AJ from the weights that's drowning him) than to lift the cement block (i.e. saving his son from dying while he still has the weight of the family troubled tied to him) showing Tony hasn't figured things out yet because he's still running on instinct?

If David Chase is reading this he's probably getting a kick out of how we're warping whatever his vision is into something Mesianic and deeper than it really is... like that deep end of the pool where AJ almost drowned! :icon_mrgreen:

That's an important distinction you raise. It could also mean that Tony hasn't fully figured out how to remove the cement block on his own foot at the same time he's trying to help his son do the same.

I'll tell you what -- I'd love to ask Chase or the writers if they actually discuss the significance of removing the block from AJ's foot vs. lifting the block out of the water.

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

I don't know what I believe anymore and am uncharacteristically too worn down to think much about it. But I did absolutely love your post, CIG. Beautiful interpretation of the imagery.:icon_wink:

[dad1153]

I don't know what I believe anymore and am uncharacteristically too worn down to think much about it. But I did absolutely love your post, CIG. Beautiful interpretation of the imagery.:icon_wink:

And what am I, chopped liver? :icon_wink:

[FBI agent]

I thought the scene had overtones of baptism, or rebirth.

The rope was the umbilical cord, Tony had to pull the baby from the water and kiss the crying baby's wet head. I'll even go so far as taking the birth analogy to the hospital, where the father goes behind the glass to see his son. I just can't figure out what it means that AJ has been reborn.

[peeayebee]

The rope was the umbilical cord, Tony had to pull the baby from the water and kiss the crying baby's wet head. I'll even go so far as taking the birth analogy to the hostpital, where the father goes behind the glass to see his son.
Nice observation! It easily fits with Tony's actually calling AJ 'Baby.'

I don't know what the rebirth means either. Tony's new son? Tony will see AJ in a new light? Simply a change of direction?

chaseisgod, I loved your post. dad1153, too.

At the time I had thought it weird that Tony didn't just untie the cinderblock under the water instead of hauling it out of the pool. Without getting into the symbolism of AJ still having the block holding him down, I don't think the scene would have had the impact it did if T had untied the block from AJ's ankle. Maybe simply it would have broken the momentum. If AJ were lying next to the pool while the block was at the bottom of the pool, I think the tension would dissipate, as if AJ were safe. Of course he's not.

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

And what am I, chopped liver? :icon_wink:

Of course not. Steak Pizziole(sp), minus the viruses.:icon_biggrin: No, I love all the contributions in this thread. Excellent point you made about the weight not being cut loose but remaining like an albatross. FBI agent's further parallels are poetic.

The thing is, had it not been for Christopher the week before, the scene with AJ and Tony would have probably have left me shedding as much water as the two of them when they emerged from the pool. Instead I felt emotional and detached at the same time. I felt less than I wanted it to, less than I should have, and all because Tony has just been so compromised by Kennedy and Heidi. I didn't see anything in Second Coming that particularly supports the interpretations I tried to come to about the whole "murder of Chris as symbolic killing of Johnny Boy/bad father figures" thing (nor did I see anything that particularly refuted it, either).

But, as shantyirishman and wgaryw alluded to elsewhere, playing it both ways with Tony is, for the first time, feeling false to me. If a proper reconciliation of the two Tonys from the last two episodes doesn't emerge by the end, I'm going to remain far more divested, far less affected by whatever ending is in store. I'm just not caring as much as I should at this point.

For the first time I can remember, it's felt like a labor, a chore for me to post. And that's why I'm just a bystander in these threads, not really adding anything of substance. I just don't feel emotionally inspired (even though I rated this episode a 9.) Never thought I would ever say that.:icon_sad:

There's two more episodes for that to turn around. I sure hope it does.

[chaseisgod]

But, as shantyirishman and wgaryw alluded to elsewhere, playing it both ways with Tony is, for the first time, feeling false to me. If a proper reconciliation of the two Tonys from the last two episodes doesn't emerge by the end, I'm going to remain far more divested, far less affected by whatever ending is in store. I'm just not caring as much as I should at this point.

If that doesn't happen, I will be very disappointed and very surprised.

So Christopher's dead, and that's it? Tony just says no problem, I'm moving on, life goes on? That just doesn't make any sort of sense to me -- plot-wise, therapy-wise or anything else-wise. There simply has to be some sort of resolution.

Now I can imagine a scenario in which we'll be arguing whether Tony truly changed, or really had a breakthrough, or was just a con man, but the notion that he can kill his surrogate son and not pay any sort of psychic price for it? I just don't see it.

Chase has always saved the best for last.

[Detective Hunt]

If that doesn't happen, I will be very disappointed and very surprised.

So Christopher's dead, and that's it? Tony just says no problem, I'm moving on, life goes on? That just doesn't make any sort of sense to me -- plot-wise, therapy-wise or anything else-wise. There simply has to be some sort of resolution.

Now I can imagine a scenario in which we'll be arguing whether Tony truly changed, or really had a breakthrough, or was just a con man, but the notion that he can kill his surrogate son and not pay any sort of psychic price for it? I just don't see it.

Chase has always saved the best for last.
Well, it could be that Tony makes a deal with the devil to relieve him of the trouble of one supposed son and loses his own son in the process. Bleak, but fitting for a character like Tony. And as Tony once said to Ralphie in discussing the sad plight of Jackie Jr. - "You took the kid under your wing and schooled him the best you knew how." I think the same can be said for Tony and Chris with much the same results. No matter how many of Chris' issues were of his own doing, I don't seem to recall Tony doing so very much to really help him. I wonder if with AJ now, it might not be too little too late.

But I do like your initial look at this episode and must admit, it has me thinking. :icon_biggrin:

EDIT - And I will suggest one other bit of symbolism that might suggest AJ as a child being born - The last line of the poem the episode is titled speaks a rough beast "slouching towards Bethlehem to be born." One could suggest this is almost a quite literal suggestion of AJ as he slouches in class learning of the conflict over Israel (Bethlehem) on his way to being "born."

[chaseisgod]

Well, it could be that Tony makes a deal with the devil to relieve him of the trouble of one supposed son and loses his own son in the process. Bleak, but fitting for a character like Tony. And as Tony once said to Ralphie in discussing the sad plight of Jackie Jr. - "You took the kid under your wing and schooled him the best you knew how." I think the same can be said for Tony and Chris with much the same results. No matter how many of Chris' issues were of his own doing, I don't seem to recall Tony doing so very much to really help him. I wonder if with AJ now, it might not be too little too late.

But I do like your initial look at this episode and must admit, it has me thinking. :icon_biggrin:

Here's my guess. Last week he killed Christopher. This week he saved AJ. The psychic ramifications of all that will begun to occur net week -- I mean, in two weeks. It just doesn't surprise me that he would repress the fact that he killed Chrstopher, or try to rationalize why he did it. But it would absolutely stun me if Chase & Co. left it there. That just seems way, way too easy to me. Christopher was far too important a character -- not just for us, but for Tony -- to have it all end with a photo on the Bing's wall.

My prediction (and once again, let me point out that I have never, ever been right): Christopher will reappear in Tony's dream, a la Ade and Carmella.

Christofah ain't dead yet.

[kneelbeforegod]

I love the idea of a deal with the devil, tony did see a devil walking into the casino last episode. He also repeatedly won at the "devil's game" all the numbers on the roulette wheel add up to 666. (see the roulette post for last ep)

fly:"But, as shantyirishman and wgaryw alluded to elsewhere, playing it both ways with Tony is, for the first time, feeling false to me. If a proper reconciliation of the two Tonys from the last two episodes doesn't emerge by the end, I'm going to remain far more divested, far less affected by whatever ending is in store. I'm just not caring as much as I should at this point."

Maybe we saw the last of the two tony's, when Tony said "he's dead" in the casino maybe it was the other tony the good tony and not chris.

I thought it intersting that right after Aj's conversation with meadow he tried to kill himself. She told him to try to move out, to fly away. She said that he is the male child and asked if he knew what that meant. Aj was trying to fly away, in the pool just like the little ducklings,he was held back by the weight of being the male child. Carrying his fathers legacy, his burdens, his sins. Aj had panic attacks on multiple occassions when confronting the idea of walking in his fathers footsteps. His father sins were all to heavy for Aj, the idea of what he should become too heavy and he was pulled under by them. He called out for help and Tony used to carrying a heavy burden easily picks Aj and the block out of the pool.

Whoever said that this was a rebirth for Aj is brilliant, I am sure it is. But what will he be born to, is it the good son or the true Tony junior? Will we see his father become born again along with is son?

[FBI agent]

Not to pound this "AJ is reborn theme" too many times, but according to some sources, the early drafts of Yeats' poem was called "the Second Birth." He apparently changed it to the "Second Coming" while revising. Wikipedia says of Yeats: "His intent in doing so is not clear."

[Daddy'sgrl248]

The line "The ceremony of innocence is drowned" of the poem "The Second Coming" made me think of AJ's botched suicide attempt and the way in which Tony had saved him. To me the "good/weak" AJ died in the water which reminds me of the line"The best lack all conviction" from the "The Second Coming", while the "bad" AJ remains. Maybe AJ is the seconding coming of Tony.

[chaseisgod]

Watching this again, I noticed that A.J. had that rope tied pretty tight around both the block and his leg. I think it made more sense for Tony to pull the entire cement block out of the water, rather than remove the rope from A.J.'s foot or the block itself.

I'm really hoping that the removal of the weight from A.J. symbolizes his rebirth away from his father's heritage and legacy. But as dark as these episodes are, I doubt that will be the case. Stay away from the guns, A.J......

[djui5]

Whoever said that this was a rebirth for Aj is brilliant, I am sure it is. But what will he be born to, is it the good son or the true Tony junior? Will we see his father become born again along with is son?


He's reborn into Tony Jr, as to me, evidenced in the final shot with Tony walking into the hospital. Both Tony and AJ are clothed in dark black, surrounded by a white/silverish hospital and everyone in it. They stand alone, 2 black figures in the light.


I think it made more sense for Tony to pull the entire cement block out of the water, rather than remove the rope from A.J.'s foot or the block itself.


I agree. It was just a quick reaction, nothing more I think. You're other observations about the rebirth/ducks/flying the coop were brilliant.