Symbolism questions, observations

[FBI agent]

Not sure what any of this means, but given how deeply Chase apparently plans details, I wonder...

1) Why the episode started with a waking Tony coming down the stairs singing "Comfortably Numb" by Pink Floyd. Lots of stuff there, from Tony's emotional state to the fact that it's on the same album as "Mother."

2) In addition to Hellfighters (the movie AJ and T watched), was AJ watching 'Raging Bull' at one point? If so, a gratitous Bobby D. reference or something more?

3) Why was it made so clear that JT was writing for 'Law & Order?' A suggestion of what's to come, or a dig at the state of today's television?

[ballermann]

i think the law and order thing might just have been a dig at the series itself, almost all of the characters have been in law&order before.carmella a reocurring lawyer etc.sopranos, being cool as them are, just whack it.

[chaseisgod]

i think the law and order thing might just have been a dig at the series itself, almost all of the characters have been in law&order before.carmella a reocurring lawyer etc.sopranos, being cool as them are, just whack it.


I think it was a dig at Moltisanti, who has been a character on Law and Order. They do that sort of thing all the time, especially taking shots at the writers and other projects they have worked on.

As for songs, books they are reading, cartoons or movies appearing on television, I've now concluded that 99 percent of it is there just to give people like us something to obsess about and talk about, and that it usually turns out to have nothing to do with what actually happens.

[FBI agent]

Good point about L&O; it reminded me that Imperioli had a part on a couple episodes a season or two back. Went back and Googled and sure enough, Imperioli's character was named.....Detective Falco. Seems like subtle cross acknowledgements are the name-o-the game.

[chaseisgod]

Good point about L&O; it reminded me that Imperioli had a part on a couple episodes a season or two back. Went back and Googled and sure enough, Imperioli's character was named.....Detective Falco. Seems like subtle cross acknowledgements are the name-o-the game.

LOL...I said Moltisanti. You're right -- it's Imperioli. I can't tell them apart anymore.

[dad1153]

2) In addition to Hellfighters (the movie AJ and T watched), was AJ watching 'Raging Bull' at one point? If so, a gratitous Bobby D. reference or something more?

It was Annapolis, a Disney movie that bombed about the military academy of the same name. It was a reference to an earlier plot in the series about AJ getting (and eventually not being able to) into military school to teach him some much needed discipline.

3) Why was it made so clear that JT was writing for 'Law & Order?' A suggestion of what's to come, or a dig at the state of today's television?

Except for Imperioli, Idler and Lynn-Singer just about every actor on "The Sopranos" has moonlighted for an episode of "Law & Order" as a guest-star at least once or twice (Chianese was a judge, Falco a defense attorney, etc.). Imperioli played detective Falco (substituting for regular cast member Jesse L. Martin when he went to film the movie version of "Rent") for four episodes in the 2004-05 season, and even got to film a four-way 'walking scene' with the other cast members for the show's intro. He returned the following season (2005-06) to play the same character for one episode. Before "The Sopranos" he did a couple of guest-star stints on "L&O" as a limo driver obsessed with a super model he wanted to have sex with.

[Lawdog]

i think the law and order thing might just have been a dig at the series itself, almost all of the characters have been in law&order before.carmella a reocurring lawyer etc.sopranos, being cool as them are, just whack it.

It's more than a little dig based on the cross-pollination of talent... Chase and the HBO producers/writers have a pretty open and established disdain for network TV producers/writers. Chase has previously decried the simplicity, both moral and logical, of most network one-hour dramas, and especially Wolf's L&O franchises.

If you recall, JT Dolan's initial introduction to the series made several comments about writing fro L&O and what an "easy" gig it was, implying it's a hack job for a "real" writer. Even last night, JT was simply humping a deadline to crank out another formulaic episode. Juxtapose that with Chase & Co., who take as much time as they please to craft seasons/storylines on their timetable, not HBO's.

Below is a link to a site with quotes from Deadwood's producer (Milich), as well as Chase, demonstrating their feelings toward network one-hour dramas (scroll down a bit to get to them):

http://www.nancynall.com/archives/week_2004_03_21.html

Sorry for such an involved first post, but I've lurked here for a few years. Wanted to get in on the fun before it's all gone...

[FlyOnMelfisWall]

Welcome, Lawdog. Glad you made the leap from lurker to poster.:icon_wink:

[HagensBing1977]

As for songs, books they are reading, cartoons or movies appearing on television, I've now concluded that 99 percent of it is there just to give people like us something to obsess about and talk about, and that it usually turns out to have nothing to do with what actually happens.


Disagree, disagree, disagree. Those tv and movie that we see the characters watching inevitably give us some underlying subtext regarding what is going on in that episode. From the Public Enemy (the gangster movie not the rap group) film, to the World War II documentaries, to the President Lincoln biography, to Casablanca, to the latest John Wayne flick- they ALL give us Chase's interpretations of the emotion going on. Even when Tony was watching the Western in one of his dreams, Carmella asked if that show is more interesting than real-life.

[Lawdog]

Thanks, FoMW. You all have by far the best Sopranos board/forum out there.

[Lawdog]

Disagree, disagree, disagree. Those tv and movie that we see the characters watching inevitably give us some underlying subtext regarding what is going on in that episode. From the Public Enemy (the gangster movie not the rap group) film, to the World War II documentaries, to the President Lincoln biography, to Casablanca, to the latest John Wayne flick- they ALL give us Chase's interpretations of the emotion going on. Even when Tony was watching the Western in one of his dreams, Carmella asked if that show is more interesting than real-life.

I think you're right, consigliere. The Sopranos episodes are crafted and shot like little movies/portions of a larger movie, not 3-camera sitcoms. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that is in those shots that is an accident, especially the other media like books, films, and music. Now, are some of them there more for general atmosphere than direct interpretation? Yes, of course. But their selection/placement is never accidental.

[djui5]

Anyone catch the song playing after Tony had the talk with AJ about going to the party? "How long will he strive to put this fire out." (or something like that)
I thought it was perfect :)

[Giuseppe Soprano]

I read over at IMDB that apparently just as Tony walks in on AJ as he is flicking through the TV channels, at the moment that Tony enters, the channel AJ is flicking past shows a very prominent 'bear', making the connection to the Tony/Bear duality which ran throughout Season 5.

I havent been able to see the episode as of yet...

...is this true? Great bit of symbolism if it is!

Giuseppe Soprano

[chaseisgod]

I think you're right, consigliere. The Sopranos episodes are crafted and shot like little movies/portions of a larger movie, not 3-camera sitcoms. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that is in those shots that is an accident, especially the other media like books, films, and music. Now, are some of them there more for general atmosphere than direct interpretation? Yes, of course. But their selection/placement is never accidental.

I respect both of your positions. And I agree -- nothing is an accident. The songs, etc., help establish mood, give hints into character, and all that. You're exactly right. What I'm suggesting is that much of it turns out to mean little in terms of the plot. I keep thinking back to the school principal Carmella had the affair with. He had recommended a book to her. We all thought the book had great significance in terms of what might happen to Carmella. So far, it hasn't. There are a lot of examples like that.

I've heard enough quotes and listened to enough DVD commentaries from Chase to think he has a love/hate relationship with the audience. I think symbolic things are tossed in there to throw us off the scent -- to say, see? You all aren't as smart as you think you are.

[ballermann]

i ve only heard a bear when he is flicking around, then you see tony through the glass door, then coming in.got to rewatch it then though.